1
00:01:18,344 --> 00:01:20,344
-Well, don't we look cool?

2
00:01:22,206 --> 00:01:23,931
We look like we just walked
off the cover

3
00:01:24,034 --> 00:01:26,206
of a Philo Vance novel,
don't we?

4
00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:29,413
Have any of you guys
ever read a Philo Vance novel?

5
00:01:29,517 --> 00:01:30,862
Anybody?
-No.

6
00:01:30,965 --> 00:01:32,241
-No?

7
00:01:32,344 --> 00:01:36,310
Then you don't know how
pretentious and dated they are.

8
00:01:36,413 --> 00:01:39,965
But the first time the word
"giallo " was used was in 1929.

9
00:01:40,068 --> 00:01:42,448
The Rome publishing
house Mondadori released

10
00:01:42,551 --> 00:01:43,896
"The Benson Murder Case."

11
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,655
This was a best-selling
American novel from 1926,

12
00:01:47,758 --> 00:01:50,793
written by New York City
social climber

13
00:01:50,896 --> 00:01:53,655
what would have been called
a dandy at the time,

14
00:01:53,758 --> 00:01:55,965
who used the pen name
S.S. Van Dine

15
00:01:56,068 --> 00:01:59,793
and S.S. Van Dine's detective
was Philo Vance,

16
00:01:59,896 --> 00:02:02,379
who was the most cultured
and well-educated

17
00:02:02,482 --> 00:02:03,965
person in the world.

18
00:02:04,068 --> 00:02:07,931
Ridiculously smart,
he attended Harvard, Oxford,

19
00:02:08,034 --> 00:02:09,379
German universities.

20
00:02:09,482 --> 00:02:11,344
He was fluent in five languages.

21
00:02:11,448 --> 00:02:13,551
He was an expert in art history,
philosophy,

22
00:02:13,655 --> 00:02:15,827
law, literature, anthropology,

23
00:02:15,931 --> 00:02:17,724
and he had a natural instinct
for figuring out

24
00:02:17,827 --> 00:02:19,517
a murderer's true motives

25
00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:22,344
because of his extensive studies
in psychology.

26
00:02:22,448 --> 00:02:25,689
Plus, he was a coin collector,
a dog breeder,

27
00:02:25,793 --> 00:02:28,344
an expert at archery,
an ornithologist.

28
00:02:28,448 --> 00:02:31,241
Always ordered the finest wines
in the finest restaurants.

29
00:02:31,344 --> 00:02:33,206
He was a pianist,
a fencer, a boxer,

30
00:02:33,310 --> 00:02:35,172
a chess player,
able to figure out

31
00:02:35,275 --> 00:02:37,275
casino gambling odds
in his head.

32
00:02:37,379 --> 00:02:39,482
He was always perfectly dressed
and groomed.

33
00:02:39,586 --> 00:02:42,068
In other words, Philo Vance
is a pain in the ass.

34
00:02:42,172 --> 00:02:45,448
Nevertheless,
"The Benson Murder Case"

35
00:02:45,551 --> 00:02:48,379
was a bestseller
when it was released in 1926,

36
00:02:48,482 --> 00:02:51,379
and it led to 11 more
Philo Vance novels.

37
00:02:51,482 --> 00:02:53,137
And when Mondadori
decided to start

38
00:02:53,241 --> 00:02:54,931
its mystery series in Italy,

39
00:02:55,034 --> 00:02:57,034
they chose
to translate it into Italian,

40
00:02:57,137 --> 00:03:00,206
partly because many Italians
had emigrated to New York City

41
00:03:00,310 --> 00:03:01,896
over the past two decades,

42
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,448
and people in Italy were curious
about high society in America.

43
00:03:06,551 --> 00:03:10,551
So "giallo " is the Italian word
for yellow.

44
00:03:10,655 --> 00:03:12,827
And when "The Benson Murder
Case" was released,

45
00:03:12,931 --> 00:03:15,275
Mondadori
used a bright yellow cover,

46
00:03:15,379 --> 00:03:17,241
the same kind of cover
they would use for all the rest

47
00:03:17,344 --> 00:03:19,068
of the hundreds of crime novels

48
00:03:19,172 --> 00:03:21,413
that they would publish
over the next few decades.

49
00:03:21,517 --> 00:03:24,275
But my point is,
the giallo was foreign.

50
00:03:24,379 --> 00:03:25,827
It was always foreign.

51
00:03:25,931 --> 00:03:29,448
At first it was just American
and British crime writers.

52
00:03:29,551 --> 00:03:32,862
No Italians at all until
after World War II,

53
00:03:32,965 --> 00:03:34,413
and then just a few then.

54
00:03:34,517 --> 00:03:38,344
So when Mario Bava decides
to make a giallo film in 1962,

55
00:03:38,448 --> 00:03:41,724
he's probably talking about
a cheap paperback translation

56
00:03:41,827 --> 00:03:45,896
of an American or a British
writer like Agatha Christie,

57
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,137
Edgar Wallace, Rex Stout.

58
00:03:48,241 --> 00:03:49,586
Does anybody remember Rex Stout?

59
00:03:49,689 --> 00:03:52,310
Rex Stout was the creator
of another genius

60
00:03:52,413 --> 00:03:55,275
New York detective
named Nero Wolfe.

61
00:03:55,379 --> 00:03:58,862
Anyway, the giallo
was a foreign puzzle story.

62
00:03:58,965 --> 00:04:01,896
These were detective stories
about murder solving.

63
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,724
They were intricate plots
with smart Brits

64
00:04:04,827 --> 00:04:06,793
and smart Americans
figuring out crimes.

65
00:04:06,896 --> 00:04:08,896
So it should be no surprise
that one of the things

66
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,896
that happens when Italians start
making giallo movies

67
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,931
is that they use foreigners
in the lead roles.

68
00:04:15,034 --> 00:04:16,793
It's almost like
they didn't think Italians

69
00:04:16,896 --> 00:04:20,448
were smart enough to --

70
00:04:20,551 --> 00:04:23,724
Because all the Italian
detectives in these movies

71
00:04:23,827 --> 00:04:26,655
tend to be these dull,
plodding bureaucrats

72
00:04:26,758 --> 00:04:29,068
who are always barking
up the wrong trees.

73
00:04:29,172 --> 00:04:32,482
But the American or the Brit
or the German shows up

74
00:04:32,586 --> 00:04:34,034
and he figures out the crime.

75
00:04:34,137 --> 00:04:36,275
So in "The Bird
with the Crystal Pumage,"

76
00:04:36,379 --> 00:04:38,931
it's the American novelist
Sam Dalmas.

77
00:04:39,034 --> 00:04:42,413
In Mario Bava's first giallo --

78
00:04:42,517 --> 00:04:45,310
I'm going to call it
a proto-giallo film --

79
00:04:45,413 --> 00:04:48,551
"The Girl Who Knew Too Much,"
an American tourist in Rome

80
00:04:48,655 --> 00:04:50,965
gets involved
in a serial murder case,

81
00:04:51,068 --> 00:04:52,655
even though
the American tourist was played

82
00:04:52,758 --> 00:04:55,068
by an Italian actress,
Letícia Román.

83
00:04:55,172 --> 00:04:59,482
And even though the cast of our
next movie is mostly Italian,

84
00:04:59,586 --> 00:05:02,068
the male lead is
American actor Cameron Mitchell,

85
00:05:02,172 --> 00:05:04,137
who worked with Bava
three times,

86
00:05:04,241 --> 00:05:07,000
and Bava,
and he considered Bava

87
00:05:07,103 --> 00:05:08,793
the greatest director
he ever worked with,

88
00:05:08,896 --> 00:05:10,965
and Mitchell had worked
with John Ford,

89
00:05:11,068 --> 00:05:12,862
Elia Kazan,

90
00:05:12,965 --> 00:05:16,896
uh, Sam Peckinpah,
Raoul Walsh, Stanley Kramer.

91
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,724
Okay, so I've said a lot about
the origins of the word "giallo"

92
00:05:20,827 --> 00:05:22,068
and its importance.

93
00:05:22,172 --> 00:05:24,241
And actually Mondadori
is still there.

94
00:05:24,344 --> 00:05:29,517
It still publishes these giallo
translations 96 years later.

95
00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:31,344
But I want --
Now, I want you guys

96
00:05:31,448 --> 00:05:34,206
to talk about
what the word "giallo" means

97
00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:37,344
and how it's used and
misused in the film community,

98
00:05:37,448 --> 00:05:39,103
because obviously it means
something different now.

99
00:05:39,206 --> 00:05:40,862
So Lars let's start with you.
Go for it.

100
00:05:40,965 --> 00:05:42,655
I know you feel strongly
about it.

101
00:05:42,758 --> 00:05:44,482
-Well, when you talk about
giallo novels,

102
00:05:44,586 --> 00:05:46,000
really, that's pretty much
any kind of mystery

103
00:05:46,103 --> 00:05:47,413
or thriller,
mystery-thriller.

104
00:05:47,517 --> 00:05:48,827
But when you talk about
giallo films,

105
00:05:48,931 --> 00:05:52,310
that is its own thing,
because as a film,

106
00:05:52,413 --> 00:05:54,758
we anticipate
if we're watching a giallo,

107
00:05:54,862 --> 00:05:57,241
that it's going to be a mystery

108
00:05:57,344 --> 00:05:58,655
where the crime is solved
by someone

109
00:05:58,758 --> 00:06:01,689
who has been sort of
spontaneously put into the role

110
00:06:01,793 --> 00:06:03,448
of the investigator
or the detective.

111
00:06:03,551 --> 00:06:05,965
It's generally,
or maybe always not,

112
00:06:06,068 --> 00:06:07,965
it's not a cop,
it's not a private eye.

113
00:06:08,068 --> 00:06:10,275
It's someone who is like,
witnessed a murder and now

114
00:06:10,379 --> 00:06:11,758
has to get to the bottom of it.

115
00:06:11,862 --> 00:06:15,137
Um, so that -- that sort of
blow up, uh, angle of it

116
00:06:15,241 --> 00:06:18,344
is kind of what we've come
to think of as the giallo.

117
00:06:18,448 --> 00:06:19,827
And then often generally,

118
00:06:19,931 --> 00:06:21,896
and I will credit Argento
with this,

119
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,241
there's often
a psychological framework of it

120
00:06:25,344 --> 00:06:27,275
where there's a neurosis
or a psychosis

121
00:06:27,379 --> 00:06:31,206
that forms a very difficult
to detect motive for the murder,

122
00:06:31,310 --> 00:06:33,310
that you have to put
the jigsaw pieces

123
00:06:33,413 --> 00:06:36,000
of this person's broken psyche
together to determine.

124
00:06:36,103 --> 00:06:38,137
-Okay, what about you, Troy,
what do you think?

125
00:06:38,241 --> 00:06:39,827
I know you feel
strongly about --

126
00:06:39,931 --> 00:06:43,344
I mean, the word "giallo "
got transformed

127
00:06:43,448 --> 00:06:44,931
when it became a movie.

128
00:06:45,034 --> 00:06:47,379
So how did -- how is that
transformation expressed?

129
00:06:47,482 --> 00:06:49,793
-Well, as you rightly say,
it comes from these series

130
00:06:49,896 --> 00:06:52,551
of paperback pulp thrillers,
effectively.

131
00:06:52,655 --> 00:06:56,172
Um, another important aspect of
that is the very lurid cover art

132
00:06:56,275 --> 00:06:58,034
that was done for these books.

133
00:06:58,137 --> 00:06:59,310
And so that's what really

134
00:06:59,413 --> 00:07:01,413
the Italian filmmakers
kind of tapped into.

135
00:07:01,517 --> 00:07:03,551
Regardless of whether the books
themselves were lurid or not,

136
00:07:03,655 --> 00:07:05,310
they always promised sex
and violence.

137
00:07:05,413 --> 00:07:08,931
So that's a very important part
of the whole giallo experience.

138
00:07:09,034 --> 00:07:11,482
If you say giallo to an Italian,
it's a thriller.

139
00:07:11,586 --> 00:07:13,000
They don't really make
any distinction.

140
00:07:13,103 --> 00:07:16,068
You say it outside of Italy.
It's a very specific thing.

141
00:07:16,172 --> 00:07:18,758
I think it has to be
primarily Italian,

142
00:07:18,862 --> 00:07:20,482
understanding that these films,

143
00:07:20,586 --> 00:07:22,310
usually there are
other countries involved

144
00:07:22,413 --> 00:07:23,758
in the financing.

145
00:07:23,862 --> 00:07:25,551
Uh, "Blood and Black Lace,"
for example,

146
00:07:25,655 --> 00:07:28,034
there's also French
and German money in it.

147
00:07:28,137 --> 00:07:30,827
Uh, this is not unusual,
but primarily an Italian film.

148
00:07:30,931 --> 00:07:33,482
There are a bunch of movies
made in other countries,

149
00:07:33,586 --> 00:07:35,482
especially Spain,
during the 1970s.

150
00:07:35,586 --> 00:07:37,448
There's a lot
of giallo -type films.

151
00:07:37,551 --> 00:07:38,827
I don't think
they're true giallo,

152
00:07:38,931 --> 00:07:40,310
but hey, that's just me.

153
00:07:40,413 --> 00:07:41,655
-Because they can't deliver.

154
00:07:41,758 --> 00:07:43,482
They can't deliver all
those Italian elements

155
00:07:43,586 --> 00:07:44,586
that we associate with.

156
00:07:44,689 --> 00:07:46,551
-They try.
-Okay.

157
00:07:46,655 --> 00:07:48,206
Sam,
anything to add to that?

158
00:07:48,310 --> 00:07:50,172
-Yeah.
And I agree with Troy that

159
00:07:50,275 --> 00:07:51,862
they are a time and a place.

160
00:07:51,965 --> 00:07:53,379
They --
They are primarily Italian.

161
00:07:53,482 --> 00:07:55,965
I think post
"Bird with the Crystal Plumage"

162
00:07:56,068 --> 00:07:57,965
once you enter into '70s giallo,

163
00:07:58,068 --> 00:08:00,137
there's really kind of
the hallmarks of it form

164
00:08:00,241 --> 00:08:02,896
in terms
of the stylistic choices --

165
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,448
black gloves, um, the scores.

166
00:08:05,551 --> 00:08:07,551
I think the scores play
a huge part

167
00:08:07,655 --> 00:08:09,586
and some sort of
societal concern.

168
00:08:09,689 --> 00:08:12,000
I think after Plumage
they become kind of street level

169
00:08:12,103 --> 00:08:13,310
versus "Blood and Black Lace,"

170
00:08:13,413 --> 00:08:15,758
which still feels very gothic
and classical.

171
00:08:15,862 --> 00:08:19,620
And then I think everything
after that is, you know,

172
00:08:19,724 --> 00:08:22,275
I hate to add a word post,
but it's like post-hardcore,

173
00:08:22,379 --> 00:08:25,724
like, every movie after that
is kind of like post-giallo,

174
00:08:25,827 --> 00:08:29,620
and they're using the stylistic
choices and nodding to them,

175
00:08:29,724 --> 00:08:32,965
but the more pure aspects
of it were, I think,

176
00:08:33,068 --> 00:08:34,655
mainly the decade of the '70s.

177
00:08:34,758 --> 00:08:37,827
-What about you, Claire?
What's giallo mean today?

178
00:08:37,931 --> 00:08:39,655
-I have been
thinking about this,

179
00:08:39,758 --> 00:08:41,827
and I sort of think
that it would be easier

180
00:08:41,931 --> 00:08:44,310
to define what a giallo is.

181
00:08:44,413 --> 00:08:46,793
Um, not so much by like,

182
00:08:46,896 --> 00:08:49,344
checking off a bunch
of items on a list,

183
00:08:49,448 --> 00:08:51,379
but by having, like,
a bingo card.

184
00:08:51,482 --> 00:08:55,482
And once you get a certain
density of the right elements,

185
00:08:55,586 --> 00:08:58,275
then it's okay
because if you really --

186
00:08:58,379 --> 00:09:00,482
When people start
to describe the typical giallo,

187
00:09:00,586 --> 00:09:01,586
we all say the same things.

188
00:09:01,689 --> 00:09:03,689
It's like, oh,
you have the reluctant

189
00:09:03,793 --> 00:09:06,137
fish-out-of-water detective
who usually is foreign.

190
00:09:06,241 --> 00:09:07,448
You have
the black-gloved killer.

191
00:09:07,551 --> 00:09:09,758
And a lot of these descriptions

192
00:09:09,862 --> 00:09:12,241
are just descriptions
of Argento movies.

193
00:09:12,344 --> 00:09:14,448
And when you really start
looking at a list

194
00:09:14,551 --> 00:09:16,034
of what the proper gialli are,

195
00:09:16,137 --> 00:09:18,241
even the ones
that most people agree on,

196
00:09:18,344 --> 00:09:20,896
those elements are not
in lots and lots of them.

197
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,379
And then you have folks
like us arguing about which

198
00:09:23,482 --> 00:09:26,413
which movies
are gialli at all.

199
00:09:26,517 --> 00:09:28,482
I actually,
I know this is controversial,

200
00:09:28,586 --> 00:09:30,310
but, you know,
Umberto Lenzi made those movies

201
00:09:30,413 --> 00:09:32,103
with Carroll Baker,
and I find a lot of them

202
00:09:32,206 --> 00:09:34,620
are just like
neurotic psychodramas.

203
00:09:34,724 --> 00:09:36,827
They're not really gialli
to me.

204
00:09:36,931 --> 00:09:40,000
But then some people will argue
that "Suspiria" is a giallo.

205
00:09:40,103 --> 00:09:41,275
-It is not.
-And it --

206
00:09:41,379 --> 00:09:43,482
It is not, but --
-Damn right.

207
00:09:43,586 --> 00:09:46,034
-But people say this
who are not always morons.

208
00:09:46,137 --> 00:09:49,206
And it's, um, I just think
it's -- it's provocative

209
00:09:49,310 --> 00:09:51,344
that we have to argue
about this.

210
00:09:51,448 --> 00:09:56,482
-So there's a non-moron
critical mass of people

211
00:09:56,586 --> 00:09:59,137
who have a larger definition
of the giallo.

212
00:09:59,241 --> 00:10:01,827
-Yeah. I don't want to accuse
anyone on TV,

213
00:10:01,931 --> 00:10:03,172
but I've heard the arguments.

214
00:10:03,275 --> 00:10:04,931
I'm like, alright,
I understand why you think that.

215
00:10:05,034 --> 00:10:06,793
-The -- The one thing
we haven't really pointed out

216
00:10:06,896 --> 00:10:09,275
is that it's not supernatural
in nature.

217
00:10:09,379 --> 00:10:10,862
That's a thing
that the giallo,

218
00:10:10,965 --> 00:10:12,482
I think that
that must be the case,

219
00:10:12,586 --> 00:10:14,896
that it is not supernatural
in nature.

220
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,413
-It get's tricky though.
-Yeah.

221
00:10:16,517 --> 00:10:19,551
-Like, yeah, Fulci's
"The Psychic" is very giallo.

222
00:10:19,655 --> 00:10:21,310
-Bava's "Hatchet for the
Honeymoon" is another one

223
00:10:21,413 --> 00:10:23,206
where it turns into
a ghost story at the end.

224
00:10:23,310 --> 00:10:24,655
-I mean, but isn't it true

225
00:10:24,758 --> 00:10:27,655
sometimes you think
it's supernatural, but it's not?

226
00:10:27,758 --> 00:10:28,862
-Well, yeah.
-Scooby-Doo.

227
00:10:28,965 --> 00:10:30,655
-Scooby-Doo ending,
yeah, yeah, true.

228
00:10:30,758 --> 00:10:33,206
-Alright, in the
Battle for the Black Glove,

229
00:10:33,310 --> 00:10:35,413
what is the score,
Darcy?

230
00:10:35,517 --> 00:10:37,310
It is 30-30.

231
00:10:37,413 --> 00:10:38,827
-There you go.
-Alright.

232
00:10:38,931 --> 00:10:40,241
-Tied at halftime.

233
00:10:41,931 --> 00:10:45,896
-Now we're going to watch
the film that was regarded as
the foundation film of
the giallo,

234
00:10:47,137 --> 00:10:48,413
uh, "Blood and Black Lace."

235
00:10:48,517 --> 00:10:51,241
A film that was
not a success at the box office,

236
00:10:51,344 --> 00:10:54,034
but it had a really outsized
influence on other filmmakers,

237
00:10:54,137 --> 00:10:56,482
and it continues to have
that influence to this day.

238
00:10:56,586 --> 00:10:58,413
"Blood and Black Lace
is the sensitive story

239
00:10:58,517 --> 00:11:00,758
of a haute couture
fashion house,

240
00:11:00,862 --> 00:11:02,241
where the models and designers

241
00:11:02,344 --> 00:11:04,896
are being stalked
by a black-gloved killer

242
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,172
looking for a diary that details
all kinds of scandals

243
00:11:08,275 --> 00:11:11,413
involving jealousy,
infidelity, blackmail, drugs,

244
00:11:11,517 --> 00:11:13,275
and of course, murder.

245
00:11:13,379 --> 00:11:15,000
And sure,
we've seen it before,

246
00:11:15,103 --> 00:11:17,068
but have we seen it
with a spiked-metal glove

247
00:11:17,172 --> 00:11:19,965
that just might be the prototype
for Freddy Krueger?

248
00:11:20,068 --> 00:11:21,551
I think not.

249
00:11:21,655 --> 00:11:23,655
So let's take a look at
those drive-in totals.

250
00:11:23,758 --> 00:11:25,000
We have...

251
00:11:37,551 --> 00:11:40,448
Chase. Kidnapping. Blackmail.
Double cross fu

252
00:11:40,551 --> 00:11:43,344
Drive-In Academy Award
nominations for Eva Bartok

253
00:11:43,448 --> 00:11:45,655
as the Countess with
a modeling career who says,

254
00:11:45,758 --> 00:11:47,793
"The show must go on,
you know."

255
00:11:47,896 --> 00:11:49,758
Cameron Mitchell
as the fashion-house owner

256
00:11:49,862 --> 00:11:51,344
for being Cameron Mitchell,

257
00:11:51,448 --> 00:11:54,413
Mary Arden as the model
who finds the diary for saying,

258
00:11:54,517 --> 00:11:56,517
"Please believe me,
I burned it!"

259
00:11:56,620 --> 00:11:59,172
Thomas Reiner
as the grim-faced inspector

260
00:11:59,275 --> 00:12:01,413
who says,
"Perhaps the sight of beauty

261
00:12:01,517 --> 00:12:04,413
makes him lose control
of himself, so he kills,"

262
00:12:04,517 --> 00:12:08,172
Carlo Rustichelli,
the composer for the jazzy score

263
00:12:08,275 --> 00:12:10,586
that keeps us slightly unsettled
the whole time.

264
00:12:10,689 --> 00:12:13,310
And of course,
Mario Bava for making a movie

265
00:12:13,413 --> 00:12:16,758
we're still talking
about 61 years later.

266
00:12:16,862 --> 00:12:19,724
Four stars.
Joe Bob says, "Check it out."

267
00:12:21,689 --> 00:12:23,586
People eventually got
sick of those

268
00:12:23,689 --> 00:12:26,413
Philo Vance detective novels.

269
00:12:26,517 --> 00:12:28,862
And my theory is that

270
00:12:28,965 --> 00:12:31,551
once you meet Sam Spade
and Philip Marlowe,

271
00:12:31,655 --> 00:12:35,068
you cannot stomach this weenie
with a pencil mustache

272
00:12:35,172 --> 00:12:37,448
who quotes Schopenhauer
at the cocktail party.

273
00:12:37,551 --> 00:12:42,000
You know, "The Big Sleep"
comes out in, um, 1939.

274
00:12:42,103 --> 00:12:45,517
"The Maltese Falcon"
came out in 1929,

275
00:12:45,620 --> 00:12:47,724
and Philip Marlowe
could just beat

276
00:12:47,827 --> 00:12:50,655
Philo Vance's ass blindfolded,
with both hands tied,

277
00:12:50,758 --> 00:12:53,896
and Sam Spade could beat his ass
and then sell him into slavery.

278
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,620
So you know what I mean.

279
00:12:55,724 --> 00:12:58,137
The L.A., what happened
is the L.A. detectives

280
00:12:58,241 --> 00:13:01,551
just wipes New York detectives
off the map.

281
00:13:01,655 --> 00:13:03,931
-Until "Shaft"
brought them back.

282
00:13:04,034 --> 00:13:05,689
-True, true.

283
00:13:05,793 --> 00:13:07,689
Shaft was the first
New York detective

284
00:13:07,793 --> 00:13:09,896
to take --
take the mantle back.

285
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,344
-Damn right.
-So Shaft could chop Philo Vance

286
00:13:13,448 --> 00:13:15,413
into pieces
and feed him to the squirrels.

287
00:13:15,517 --> 00:13:16,931
-That's true.

288
00:16:06,965 --> 00:16:09,137
-What's got into you?
Why didn't you phone?

289
00:16:09,241 --> 00:16:10,862
Isabella might see us.

290
00:16:10,965 --> 00:16:13,862
-Did you bring some?
-No.

291
00:16:13,965 --> 00:16:15,551
-I can't stand it anymore.

292
00:16:17,103 --> 00:16:18,931
I can't stand it anymore.

293
00:16:19,034 --> 00:16:20,482
-Be patient.

294
00:16:20,586 --> 00:16:21,793
When I'm through,
we'll get some.

295
00:16:21,896 --> 00:16:25,103
How about Isabella?

296
00:16:25,206 --> 00:16:28,000
-We had a quarrel.

297
00:16:28,103 --> 00:16:29,206
Damn her!

298
00:16:29,310 --> 00:16:30,827
She even took what I had.

299
00:16:30,931 --> 00:16:32,931
Try to hold out.

300
00:16:33,034 --> 00:16:34,931
We'll find some, for sure.

301
00:16:35,034 --> 00:16:36,655
Please hold out.

302
00:16:36,758 --> 00:16:38,655
Please.

303
00:16:38,758 --> 00:16:39,758
Go now.

304
00:16:39,862 --> 00:16:41,724
-Okay. Later.

305
00:16:41,827 --> 00:16:42,965
Okay.

306
00:16:43,068 --> 00:16:44,827
Goodbye.

307
00:17:23,344 --> 00:17:25,448
-Isabella. Your scarf.

308
00:17:25,551 --> 00:17:27,448
-Thanks.
-Goodbye.

309
00:19:03,034 --> 00:19:04,965
-Aah!

310
00:19:07,689 --> 00:19:09,965
Jack!

311
00:20:22,689 --> 00:20:25,862
-The sign seems to have
come off again.

312
00:20:25,965 --> 00:20:27,965
Want me to fix it?

313
00:20:28,068 --> 00:20:30,517
-No. No. Not today.

314
00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:32,827
You can do it tomorrow.

315
00:21:14,103 --> 00:21:16,965
Listen, Isabella hasn't
turned up again.

316
00:21:17,068 --> 00:21:18,275
I don't know what to do
with that girl.

317
00:21:18,379 --> 00:21:20,275
This is the third time.

318
00:21:20,379 --> 00:21:22,724
-All I suggest is a penalty.

319
00:21:22,827 --> 00:21:24,379
Make her pay a fine.

320
00:21:24,482 --> 00:21:25,793
-It's all very well.

321
00:21:25,896 --> 00:21:28,758
The next time she does it,
I'm going to fire her.

322
00:21:42,655 --> 00:21:44,551
-Good night, madame.
-Good night.

323
00:21:47,482 --> 00:21:48,689
Nicole.

324
00:21:48,793 --> 00:21:50,137
Look at this dress.

325
00:21:50,241 --> 00:21:51,793
I wish you'd take care
of the things you wear.

326
00:21:51,896 --> 00:21:54,206
Tomorrow's the show.
Now, look at this.

327
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:55,793
-Yes, madam. I'm sorry.

328
00:21:55,896 --> 00:21:58,103
-Yes, you are sorry, especially
when it's time to leave.

329
00:21:58,206 --> 00:22:02,517
You have absolutely no mind
for anything else.

330
00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:03,827
-What does she expect?

331
00:22:03,931 --> 00:22:05,275
I'm not in mourning like her.
-Poor thing.

332
00:22:05,379 --> 00:22:07,724
She hasn't been the same
since her husband died.

333
00:22:16,413 --> 00:22:18,896
-Aah! Isabella!

334
00:22:48,931 --> 00:22:51,275
-How long were the lights out?

335
00:22:51,379 --> 00:22:53,586
-About 10 minutes.

336
00:22:53,689 --> 00:22:56,482
-How long has the girl
worked for you?

337
00:22:56,586 --> 00:23:00,172
-About two years.

338
00:23:00,275 --> 00:23:02,172
-What was she like?

339
00:23:03,551 --> 00:23:06,620
-She was rather lively,

340
00:23:06,724 --> 00:23:08,241
perhaps lacking discipline.

341
00:23:08,344 --> 00:23:10,586
Nothing seriously
wrong with her.

342
00:23:10,689 --> 00:23:14,586
-Did she have many friends?

343
00:23:14,689 --> 00:23:17,586
-Well, Inspector, I'm afraid
I can't be of much help to you.

344
00:23:17,689 --> 00:23:20,137
I suggest you ask the two girls
who lived with her.

345
00:23:48,931 --> 00:23:52,034
-Inspector Sylvester,
Countess Christina Como,

346
00:23:52,137 --> 00:23:54,275
the owner of our salon.

347
00:23:54,379 --> 00:23:56,448
-Good morning.
-Good morning.

348
00:23:56,551 --> 00:24:00,310
But we've already met,
haven't we?

349
00:24:01,482 --> 00:24:05,379
-Oh. Oh, yes.
Yes, I think so.

350
00:24:05,482 --> 00:24:07,655
After my husband's death.

351
00:24:07,758 --> 00:24:12,482
-I remember.
The car accident.

352
00:24:12,586 --> 00:24:14,655
Uh, you certainly can help me.

353
00:24:14,758 --> 00:24:17,379
You surely know everything
about these girls.

354
00:24:17,482 --> 00:24:20,551
-Inspector, I don't
run a boarding school.

355
00:24:20,655 --> 00:24:21,862
When the girls
finish here, they --

356
00:24:21,965 --> 00:24:23,862
they're free to go
and do as they please.

357
00:24:26,413 --> 00:24:29,103
Well, um,
I'll be in the studio,

358
00:24:29,206 --> 00:24:31,793
if you'll excuse me.
-Please.

359
00:24:55,275 --> 00:24:57,689
-You say you went outside
to repair the metal sign?

360
00:24:57,793 --> 00:25:00,758
At what time was it?
-About 7:00.

361
00:25:00,862 --> 00:25:03,655
Madam Christina complained that
the noise got on her nerves.

362
00:25:03,758 --> 00:25:06,586
So I went out
and I put up the sign again.

363
00:25:06,689 --> 00:25:07,965
But I came back inside at once.

364
00:25:08,068 --> 00:25:12,310
-Mr. Morlan,
I demand an explanation.

365
00:25:12,413 --> 00:25:14,379
I hardly put my foot
inside the gate

366
00:25:14,482 --> 00:25:15,965
when these two grabbed
ahold of me.

367
00:25:16,068 --> 00:25:17,758
-Ask the inspector.
-Inspector?

368
00:25:17,862 --> 00:25:19,793
-Calm down and tell me
why you're here.

369
00:25:19,896 --> 00:25:21,068
-Allow me.

370
00:25:21,172 --> 00:25:22,689
Marquis Richard Morell.

371
00:25:22,793 --> 00:25:24,551
-Alright, alright.
Now, answer my question.

372
00:25:24,655 --> 00:25:27,275
-He's here to see me.
He's my fiancé.

373
00:25:30,206 --> 00:25:31,862
-Why are you laughing?

374
00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:33,482
-Because I live with him.

375
00:25:33,586 --> 00:25:36,137
-Did you know Isabella?

376
00:25:36,241 --> 00:25:38,586
-Isabella?

377
00:25:38,689 --> 00:25:41,517
You introduced me
to her, didn't you?

378
00:25:41,620 --> 00:25:45,103
Yes, I can say I knew her.
Only slightly, though.

379
00:25:45,206 --> 00:25:46,793
-Only slightly.

380
00:25:56,931 --> 00:25:59,758
-Well, you seem to be
the only one who cares.

381
00:25:59,862 --> 00:26:01,655
-They were close friends.

382
00:26:01,758 --> 00:26:03,689
-The three of you
lived together?

383
00:26:03,793 --> 00:26:05,896
-Yes.
-What was she like?

384
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,896
Tell me who your friend
went out with.

385
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,551
-I don't know, I don't know.
-Leave her alone.

386
00:26:10,655 --> 00:26:14,344
Everybody knows
who Isabella's lover was.

387
00:26:14,448 --> 00:26:15,551
-Who are you?

388
00:26:15,655 --> 00:26:17,586
-Caesar Lazar.
I'm a dress designer.

389
00:26:17,689 --> 00:26:19,172
-What about the other name?

390
00:26:19,275 --> 00:26:21,379
-Which?
-The name of this lover.

391
00:26:21,482 --> 00:26:24,344
-Scalo. Frank Scalo,
the antique dealer.

392
00:26:29,379 --> 00:26:33,482
-Please tell me, where
is Inspector?
-In there.
-Thank you.

393
00:26:40,793 --> 00:26:42,758
-Would you excuse me
for a moment?

394
00:26:46,275 --> 00:26:48,758
-They confirm.

395
00:26:48,862 --> 00:26:51,344
Drugs.

396
00:26:51,448 --> 00:26:52,931
-I see.
-Yes, sir.

397
00:27:01,862 --> 00:27:07,034
-So...what kind of
a relationship was there

398
00:27:07,137 --> 00:27:09,758
with Isabella and you?

399
00:27:09,862 --> 00:27:11,379
-We were just friends.

400
00:27:11,482 --> 00:27:13,034
-Or lovers.

401
00:27:15,413 --> 00:27:17,793
-Well, I hope it doesn't become
scandalized if I tell you.

402
00:27:17,896 --> 00:27:19,965
But I don't believe
in permanent,

403
00:27:20,068 --> 00:27:22,827
exclusive relationships.

404
00:27:22,931 --> 00:27:25,000
-I see, I see.

405
00:27:28,931 --> 00:27:30,379
Ever seen it before?

406
00:27:33,275 --> 00:27:35,103
-No. I don't know.

407
00:27:36,586 --> 00:27:37,655
What is it?

408
00:27:37,758 --> 00:27:40,586
-Cocaine.

409
00:27:40,689 --> 00:27:45,482
It was found in your friend
Isabella's house.

410
00:27:45,586 --> 00:27:46,965
-Isabella?

411
00:27:47,068 --> 00:27:49,241
-You knew nothing about it?

412
00:27:49,344 --> 00:27:51,103
-No.

413
00:27:51,206 --> 00:27:54,000
-Never mind.

414
00:27:54,103 --> 00:27:58,724
However, I must ask you
to remain at my disposal.

415
00:27:58,827 --> 00:28:00,000
I'll see you later.

416
00:28:14,344 --> 00:28:16,379
-Turn around.

417
00:28:16,482 --> 00:28:19,034
Alright. You can go.
Hurry!

418
00:28:23,344 --> 00:28:24,965
Well, Caesar, what is it?

419
00:28:25,068 --> 00:28:27,724
-This should have been
worn by -- by poor Isabella.

420
00:28:27,827 --> 00:28:29,586
-Yes. Of course.
-Who shall I give it to?

421
00:28:29,689 --> 00:28:30,965
-Well, let me see.

422
00:28:31,068 --> 00:28:32,689
Oh, Peggy. Look. Here.
-Please. No. Not me.

423
00:28:32,793 --> 00:28:34,103
No, no. Please. I saw her
put that dress on.

424
00:28:34,206 --> 00:28:35,275
-Oh, for heaven's sake,
stop that!

425
00:28:35,379 --> 00:28:37,310
You're going to
ruin your makeup!

426
00:28:37,413 --> 00:28:38,724
Greta, you model it.

427
00:28:38,827 --> 00:28:40,517
-Oh, no, I don't think
I should wear it.

428
00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:43,103
-Look, don't be so silly.
-It carries bad luck, I'm sure.

429
00:28:43,206 --> 00:28:44,724
-But, girl,
someone's got to model it.

430
00:28:44,827 --> 00:28:47,137
-I'll wear the dress.
-Alright. Now come on.

431
00:28:47,241 --> 00:28:52,000
-What a cynic.
She doesn't believe in anything.

432
00:28:52,103 --> 00:28:53,413
-That's alright. You can go.

433
00:29:31,379 --> 00:29:32,413
-Turn around.

434
00:29:32,517 --> 00:29:34,448
Walk.

435
00:29:34,551 --> 00:29:36,275
Alright.

436
00:29:38,172 --> 00:29:40,034
-Wait.

437
00:29:40,137 --> 00:29:42,655
There's something missing.

438
00:29:42,758 --> 00:29:44,482
The brooch.
The brooch goes there.

439
00:29:44,586 --> 00:29:47,241
-We'll soon put it right.
Where is it?

440
00:29:47,344 --> 00:29:49,517
-Well, it was Isabella's own.
Wait a minute.

441
00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:51,862
She kept it in one of the boxes.
Let's look for it.

442
00:29:59,517 --> 00:30:01,482
-Here it is.

443
00:30:08,931 --> 00:30:12,241
Hey. Look at this.

444
00:30:12,344 --> 00:30:14,379
Isabella kept a diary.

445
00:30:21,137 --> 00:30:23,448
This is a gold mine. Listen.

446
00:30:23,551 --> 00:30:27,103
"He is a man that awakens
such deep feelings in me

447
00:30:27,206 --> 00:30:30,172
that afterwards
I feel limp, empty."

448
00:30:30,275 --> 00:30:32,724
-Let me see.

449
00:30:32,827 --> 00:30:34,137
-I don't think we should.

450
00:30:34,241 --> 00:30:36,137
-Come. Are you crazy?

451
00:30:36,241 --> 00:30:37,862
This is hardly the moment.

452
00:30:37,965 --> 00:30:40,413
Be off with you.
Go on. Go on and change.

453
00:30:44,275 --> 00:30:46,862
This, you know,
should be handed to the police.

454
00:30:46,965 --> 00:30:47,896
-I found it.

455
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,379
If you don't mind,

456
00:30:49,482 --> 00:30:51,724
I would like to give it
to the police tomorrow.

457
00:30:54,965 --> 00:30:56,758
-As you wish.

458
00:32:23,827 --> 00:32:26,413
-Hello? Hello, Frank?

459
00:32:26,517 --> 00:32:29,620
Why haven't you come?
-I'm just leaving,

460
00:32:29,724 --> 00:32:31,275
but I don't feel well.

461
00:32:31,379 --> 00:32:33,379
-I understand.

462
00:32:33,482 --> 00:32:36,344
Come out here. I've got some.

463
00:32:36,448 --> 00:32:42,103
Listen, Frank. I found a diary.
Isabella's diary.

464
00:32:42,206 --> 00:32:43,827
-A diary?

465
00:32:43,931 --> 00:32:45,689
Who else knows?

466
00:32:45,793 --> 00:32:47,448
-Everyone was looking.

467
00:32:47,551 --> 00:32:49,344
I didn't realize
that there might be

468
00:32:49,448 --> 00:32:50,758
something about you in it.

469
00:32:50,862 --> 00:32:52,793
By the way,
I said that I would give it

470
00:32:52,896 --> 00:32:55,517
to the police tomorrow.
-Good.

471
00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:57,379
That gives us time to look
through it.

472
00:32:57,482 --> 00:33:00,206
I'll be right over.

473
00:33:00,310 --> 00:33:03,551
-But you are terribly ill,
Frank.

474
00:33:03,655 --> 00:33:07,034
Frank? Can you hear me?

475
00:33:07,137 --> 00:33:09,862
-Nicole, I can hardly breathe.

476
00:33:09,965 --> 00:33:13,965
If you've got some,
I'll feel better. Goodbye.

477
00:33:14,068 --> 00:33:15,689
-Goodbye.

478
00:33:19,517 --> 00:33:22,034
-Hurry up, girls.
Greta, you're next.

479
00:33:23,586 --> 00:33:25,724
Everything alright, Marco?
-Yes, madam.

480
00:33:25,827 --> 00:33:26,793
-Good.

481
00:33:31,689 --> 00:33:32,931
Well, Caesar,
where have you been?

482
00:33:33,034 --> 00:33:34,689
-Right here.
-Well, then, send them in.

483
00:33:34,793 --> 00:33:36,310
Do I have to do
everything myself?

484
00:33:42,827 --> 00:33:45,862
-Nicole, you're wanted
on the phone.

485
00:33:45,965 --> 00:33:47,103
-Me?
-Yes, you.

486
00:33:52,551 --> 00:33:55,310
-Hello?
-Hello? Is that you, Nicole?

487
00:33:55,413 --> 00:33:57,241
-Yes. Who's speaking?

488
00:33:57,344 --> 00:33:59,965
-Frank. I can't make it.

489
00:34:00,068 --> 00:34:01,620
I feel too bad.

490
00:34:01,724 --> 00:34:03,551
You come here. Please?

491
00:34:03,655 --> 00:34:06,586
I feel like I'm suffocating.
-How can I come now?

492
00:34:08,137 --> 00:34:12,862
Well, I will do my best.
I will come right away.

493
00:34:16,586 --> 00:34:20,137
-Alright, hurry up,
hurry up.

494
00:34:20,241 --> 00:34:21,862
-Frank feels bad. He needs me.

495
00:34:21,965 --> 00:34:24,172
I'll have to go over.
I can't wait anymore.

496
00:34:24,275 --> 00:34:26,344
Please lend me your car.
-How are you going to get away?

497
00:34:26,448 --> 00:34:27,586
We're right in the middle
of a show.

498
00:34:27,689 --> 00:34:29,344
-Who cares?
Please give me your keys.

499
00:34:29,448 --> 00:34:31,034
But don't let anyone see you.

500
00:34:41,517 --> 00:34:44,413
-Peggy, what are you doing?

501
00:34:44,517 --> 00:34:46,551
-Nothing. I was looking
for a handkerchief.

502
00:34:52,206 --> 00:34:54,482
Be careful. The alarm
is in the glove compartment,

503
00:34:54,586 --> 00:34:56,896
right at the back.
-Sure.

504
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,620
Cover me.

505
00:35:26,103 --> 00:35:29,620
-So Nicole's bag disappears
and with it,

506
00:35:29,724 --> 00:35:33,034
the diary that everybody seems
way too interested in.

507
00:35:33,137 --> 00:35:35,586
But what an opening.

508
00:35:35,689 --> 00:35:39,206
This beautiful house
surrounded by beautiful women

509
00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:41,275
who have to be beautiful
for a living.

510
00:35:41,379 --> 00:35:43,000
And it's all surrounded
by drugs,

511
00:35:43,103 --> 00:35:44,896
deception, fear and murder.

512
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,655
There's an assumption
in a lot of giallo films,

513
00:35:46,758 --> 00:35:49,620
not just this one,
that anywhere you have luxury,

514
00:35:49,724 --> 00:35:51,551
you also have corruption.

515
00:35:51,655 --> 00:35:53,896
And in fact,
the luxury hides the corruption.

516
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,103
And added to the atmosphere

517
00:35:55,206 --> 00:35:57,172
is those creepy mannequins
everywhere.

518
00:35:57,275 --> 00:35:59,655
Plus, the killer himself
looks a little like a mannequin

519
00:35:59,758 --> 00:36:01,172
with that white mask.

520
00:36:01,275 --> 00:36:03,931
So Bava has put up
this flashing neon sign

521
00:36:04,034 --> 00:36:09,137
that says people who traffic in
beauty and wealth are ugly, so.

522
00:36:09,241 --> 00:36:10,689
Or we'll see
what our panel says

523
00:36:10,793 --> 00:36:13,103
as the Battle for the Black
glove continues.

524
00:36:13,206 --> 00:36:16,586
We have a dead tie,
30 to 30.

525
00:36:16,689 --> 00:36:18,448
We're going to try
to settle for all time

526
00:36:18,551 --> 00:36:20,689
which movie is the foundation
film for giallo --

527
00:36:20,793 --> 00:36:22,000
"The Bird with
the Crystal Plumage,"

528
00:36:22,103 --> 00:36:23,551
or "Blood and Black Lace."

529
00:36:23,655 --> 00:36:24,793
And it's your turn, Lars.

530
00:36:24,896 --> 00:36:27,103
The topic is hatred
of the aristocracy.

531
00:36:27,206 --> 00:36:28,413
Go for it.

532
00:36:28,517 --> 00:36:31,379
Why is Bava better
at hating the aristocrats?

533
00:36:31,482 --> 00:36:34,862
-Well, if you're in Italy
and it's in the '60s,

534
00:36:34,965 --> 00:36:37,413
uh, it's a
relatively recent phenomenon

535
00:36:37,517 --> 00:36:39,586
that your whole country,

536
00:36:39,689 --> 00:36:42,965
uh, the industrialists,
the aristocrats, the wealthy

537
00:36:43,068 --> 00:36:45,655
got together and they did
a little trick called,

538
00:36:45,758 --> 00:36:47,862
uh, fascism
and colluding with Hitler.

539
00:36:47,965 --> 00:36:50,586
And it practically destroyed
your entire country.

540
00:36:50,689 --> 00:36:53,896
So, uh, the fact is,
at this time,

541
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,586
the leading political parties

542
00:36:55,689 --> 00:36:57,517
were like, socialists,
the communists.

543
00:36:57,620 --> 00:36:59,586
Uh, there was Marxism
and socialists going around,

544
00:36:59,689 --> 00:37:02,275
and it was a
very mainstream pursuit, um,

545
00:37:02,379 --> 00:37:03,862
because they hated the wealthy,

546
00:37:03,965 --> 00:37:05,344
because the wealthy had done
to them.

547
00:37:05,448 --> 00:37:07,620
It practically destroyed
their whole country.

548
00:37:07,724 --> 00:37:10,482
And I think that like, uh, if
we're sort of wondering, like,

549
00:37:10,586 --> 00:37:12,275
why would you hate
the aristocracy this much?

550
00:37:12,379 --> 00:37:15,620
It's like, well, try going
through like, uh, you know,

551
00:37:15,724 --> 00:37:18,862
20 years of fascism that
destroys your whole country,

552
00:37:18,965 --> 00:37:22,965
uh, literally demolishes
all your cities, your schools,

553
00:37:23,068 --> 00:37:24,758
your universities,
and you're having to rebuild.

554
00:37:24,862 --> 00:37:26,586
So that's
why the aristocracy is so hated.

555
00:37:26,689 --> 00:37:28,482
And that's the --
that's the pool that --

556
00:37:28,586 --> 00:37:31,206
that Bava's drawing from,
that hatred of the aristocracy.

557
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:35,000
-And you're saying that
he does that more than Argento?

558
00:37:35,103 --> 00:37:38,206
-Well, Argento really,
who was a socialist,

559
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:41,034
but -- but he's -- he's also
kind of a member of that class,

560
00:37:41,137 --> 00:37:43,034
of that aristocratic class.

561
00:37:43,137 --> 00:37:44,482
-Okay.

562
00:37:44,586 --> 00:37:46,517
And Sam Zimmerman,
curator of Shudder,

563
00:37:46,620 --> 00:37:48,724
it's your turn to confirm
or rebut what Lars says

564
00:37:48,827 --> 00:37:51,241
from the Argento point of view.

565
00:37:51,344 --> 00:37:52,482
-Well, you know,

566
00:37:52,586 --> 00:37:54,620
even if Argento was
a member of that class,

567
00:37:54,724 --> 00:37:57,103
his films take the giallo
to a bit more street level

568
00:37:57,206 --> 00:37:58,689
than I think Bava's work was.

569
00:37:58,793 --> 00:38:03,241
You know, Bava's work is very,
uh, high artifice, gothic.

570
00:38:03,344 --> 00:38:05,931
On the street,
you can see Argento empathizing

571
00:38:06,034 --> 00:38:07,689
and taking the point
of view of the marginalized,

572
00:38:07,793 --> 00:38:09,137
Even in Plumage,

573
00:38:09,241 --> 00:38:11,965
there are folks
he clearly has care for,

574
00:38:12,068 --> 00:38:13,551
whether it's the pimp in jail,

575
00:38:13,655 --> 00:38:16,551
whether it's the
"pervert in the lineup."

576
00:38:16,655 --> 00:38:19,620
Um, so I think he's taking it
from the point of view

577
00:38:19,724 --> 00:38:21,655
of being with the people

578
00:38:21,758 --> 00:38:25,655
rather than in the sort of
high-fashion houses Bava does.

579
00:38:25,758 --> 00:38:28,482
-Okay,
and now Claire Donner,

580
00:38:28,586 --> 00:38:30,758
big cheese in the Institute
for Miskatonic Studies.

581
00:38:30,862 --> 00:38:33,896
And Troy Howarth,
author of many books,

582
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,068
including books on Mario Bava.

583
00:38:36,172 --> 00:38:37,965
You guys are free to join in.

584
00:38:38,068 --> 00:38:40,241
-I think --
-Bava or Argento?

585
00:38:40,344 --> 00:38:42,517
-In terms of what
Lars was saying,

586
00:38:42,620 --> 00:38:45,000
which I absolutely agree with,
um,

587
00:38:45,103 --> 00:38:47,586
Bava lived through that period
as an adult

588
00:38:47,689 --> 00:38:48,862
in a way that Argento didn't.

589
00:38:48,965 --> 00:38:50,965
Argento was born in 1940.

590
00:38:51,068 --> 00:38:52,517
He's of a younger generation.

591
00:38:52,620 --> 00:38:54,724
He doesn't really
experience that firsthand.

592
00:38:54,827 --> 00:38:57,034
You know, he's there for
the kind of the end part of it.

593
00:38:57,137 --> 00:38:58,620
But as a child, uh,

594
00:38:58,724 --> 00:39:00,517
whereas Bava was already
an adult,

595
00:39:00,620 --> 00:39:04,172
he actually is, you know, part
of the film industry at the time

596
00:39:04,275 --> 00:39:06,413
when Mussolini was
still very much involved.

597
00:39:06,517 --> 00:39:07,793
Mussolini controlled the film
industry

598
00:39:07,896 --> 00:39:08,793
during that period of time.

599
00:39:08,896 --> 00:39:09,965
-He built Cinecittà.

600
00:39:10,068 --> 00:39:11,310
-He built Cinecittà.

601
00:39:11,413 --> 00:39:13,827
He established the --
the Rome Cinema School.

602
00:39:13,931 --> 00:39:17,103
So, you know, it was something
that he definitely encountered.

603
00:39:17,206 --> 00:39:18,655
And I think in a way,
you know,

604
00:39:18,758 --> 00:39:21,103
it impacted
him a little bit more directly

605
00:39:21,206 --> 00:39:22,275
than it did with Argento.

606
00:39:22,379 --> 00:39:24,689
So I think that aspect
comes across

607
00:39:24,793 --> 00:39:27,034
a little bit stronger
in his films.

608
00:39:27,137 --> 00:39:29,758
-I will respond to this
if you promise to say

609
00:39:29,862 --> 00:39:32,965
Miskatonic Institute
of Horror Studies.

610
00:39:33,068 --> 00:39:35,068
-Miskatonic Institute
of Horror Studies.

611
00:39:35,172 --> 00:39:37,517
What did I say?
Institute of Miskatonic...

612
00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:39,724
something else?
-Yeah, some words.

613
00:39:39,827 --> 00:39:40,862
It's fine.

614
00:39:40,965 --> 00:39:42,103
There's a lot of words
in the name.

615
00:39:42,206 --> 00:39:44,448
-Miskatonic Institute
of Horror Studies.

616
00:39:44,551 --> 00:39:46,896
-We did it!
-They have a website.

617
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,344
-We do have a website.
-And -- and classrooms.

618
00:39:49,448 --> 00:39:50,758
-Sort of. Yeah.
-Okay.

619
00:39:50,862 --> 00:39:52,689
-I mean, anywhere that
you're learning is a classroom,

620
00:39:52,793 --> 00:39:55,206
I suppose,
including the streets.

621
00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:57,413
Um, but don't you love it
when so long,

622
00:39:57,517 --> 00:39:58,827
the pimp
with the heart of gold,

623
00:39:58,931 --> 00:40:00,517
says it's got to be
some rich guy?

624
00:40:02,275 --> 00:40:04,103
It's like, yeah, probably.

625
00:40:04,206 --> 00:40:05,241
And Argento,
you know,

626
00:40:05,344 --> 00:40:06,517
I think the case could be made

627
00:40:06,620 --> 00:40:08,275
that if you come from
the
inside,

628
00:40:08,379 --> 00:40:11,344
you're more aware of
what these people are like

629
00:40:11,448 --> 00:40:13,448
and how perverse and degenerate

630
00:40:13,551 --> 00:40:16,137
they are from seeing it
up close.

631
00:40:16,241 --> 00:40:18,137
And Argento also as a young man,

632
00:40:18,241 --> 00:40:22,068
because he was such
a like snotty brat, frankly,

633
00:40:22,172 --> 00:40:26,551
would kind of run away from home
and live with prostitutes

634
00:40:26,655 --> 00:40:29,689
and run around, you know,
eating junk food and starving

635
00:40:29,793 --> 00:40:31,862
and or anyway,
this is the way he tells it,

636
00:40:31,965 --> 00:40:34,206
but I have to take it for
granted because I wasn't there.

637
00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:35,620
So I think --

638
00:40:35,724 --> 00:40:38,724
-That sounds like a
dissipated aristocratic class.

639
00:40:38,827 --> 00:40:41,068
-Well, I just think
that he sort of sees

640
00:40:41,172 --> 00:40:42,931
both sides of things

641
00:40:43,034 --> 00:40:45,551
and that he's airing
frustration with these movies.

642
00:40:45,655 --> 00:40:47,931
-I think Tim Argento's
defense of Mussolini

643
00:40:48,034 --> 00:40:50,344
and the brownshirts
is absolutely unconscionable.

644
00:40:51,793 --> 00:40:52,965
-Alright.

645
00:40:53,068 --> 00:40:55,000
And should be remembered
when scoring happens.

646
00:40:55,103 --> 00:40:57,068
-Alright, uh, on that note,

647
00:40:57,172 --> 00:40:59,620
I'm calling time,
and I'm just going to take

648
00:40:59,724 --> 00:41:02,517
a moment here to tally
up the points.

649
00:41:02,620 --> 00:41:04,965
I should mention
that many people have commented

650
00:41:05,068 --> 00:41:07,068
that Bava's cast features

651
00:41:07,172 --> 00:41:09,965
some of the most beautiful women
in the world at that time,

652
00:41:10,068 --> 00:41:11,862
most of them
destined to become

653
00:41:11,965 --> 00:41:14,241
fetishistic corpses
in the movie.

654
00:41:14,344 --> 00:41:16,586
But the boss woman
in the fashion house

655
00:41:16,689 --> 00:41:20,655
playing Cristiano Cuomo,
the -- the Countess

656
00:41:20,758 --> 00:41:23,551
was famous
for being so beautiful

657
00:41:23,655 --> 00:41:25,827
that no man could resist her.

658
00:41:25,931 --> 00:41:28,241
Uh, dozens of men fell in love
with her,

659
00:41:28,344 --> 00:41:32,206
and she had this tumultuous
love life and marriage life

660
00:41:32,310 --> 00:41:33,413
that was just incredible.

661
00:41:33,517 --> 00:41:35,137
She was Hungarian,

662
00:41:35,241 --> 00:41:37,655
and her father disappeared
without a trace

663
00:41:37,758 --> 00:41:39,379
when the Nazis
took over Hungary,

664
00:41:39,482 --> 00:41:41,724
and at the age of 15,
she was forced to marry

665
00:41:41,827 --> 00:41:45,517
a Nazi officer to avoid going
to a concentration camp.

666
00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:47,206
And then she later married
a friend

667
00:41:47,310 --> 00:41:51,000
who promised to get passage
to Paris for her and her mother,

668
00:41:51,103 --> 00:41:54,206
and then her third husband was
British producer Alexander Paul,

669
00:41:54,310 --> 00:41:55,482
who took her to England

670
00:41:55,586 --> 00:41:57,827
to make a film called
"A Tale of Five Women."

671
00:41:57,931 --> 00:41:59,379
And then her fourth guy,

672
00:41:59,482 --> 00:42:03,034
I think he was common law,
was Alexander Korda,

673
00:42:03,137 --> 00:42:04,931
the president of MGM England,

674
00:42:05,034 --> 00:42:07,379
who placed her under contract
at MGM.

675
00:42:07,482 --> 00:42:10,551
And then she was with a PR guy
named William Wordsworth --

676
00:42:10,655 --> 00:42:13,034
Good name for a PR guy --

677
00:42:13,137 --> 00:42:15,551
who sent her to premieres
and opening nights

678
00:42:15,655 --> 00:42:17,206
and promoted her career.

679
00:42:17,310 --> 00:42:20,758
But because she couldn't afford
the gowns for the red carpet,

680
00:42:20,862 --> 00:42:23,000
she started designing
her own clothing

681
00:42:23,103 --> 00:42:26,034
and became notable for wearing
weird costumes and hats.

682
00:42:26,137 --> 00:42:28,551
Then, an Italian promoter
offered her a contract

683
00:42:28,655 --> 00:42:29,931
to perform in a vaudeville show,

684
00:42:30,034 --> 00:42:31,551
which led to many
stage appearances

685
00:42:31,655 --> 00:42:33,241
in the major cities
of Italy,

686
00:42:33,344 --> 00:42:35,655
and then Burt Lancaster hired
her to be the leading lady

687
00:42:35,758 --> 00:42:38,068
in "The Crimson Pirate" in 1952,

688
00:42:38,172 --> 00:42:40,482
but that didn't lead
to anything lasting,

689
00:42:40,586 --> 00:42:42,206
and then she became famous
for an affair

690
00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:44,137
with David Michael Mountbatten,

691
00:42:44,241 --> 00:42:46,068
who was in the British
royal family,

692
00:42:46,172 --> 00:42:48,758
and she was actually named
in his divorce papers.

693
00:42:48,862 --> 00:42:52,448
And then in 1953, she finally
fell in love with somebody.

694
00:42:52,551 --> 00:42:55,344
She fell in love with
Curt Jurgens, the German actor,

695
00:42:55,448 --> 00:42:56,827
and they got married.

696
00:42:56,931 --> 00:42:58,689
And then she did a lot
of London stage work

697
00:42:58,793 --> 00:43:01,310
and the occasional
Hollywood movie or TV show.

698
00:43:01,413 --> 00:43:04,689
And then she gave birth in 1957
to a daughter

699
00:43:04,793 --> 00:43:07,689
that she said much later
was fathered by Frank Sinatra.

700
00:43:07,793 --> 00:43:11,172
But she named the daughter Deana
in honor of Dean Martin,

701
00:43:11,275 --> 00:43:13,931
who she was working with
when she got pregnant

702
00:43:14,034 --> 00:43:15,896
on a movie called
"10,000 Bedrooms."

703
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,413
So that whole thing
doesn't make sense.

704
00:43:17,517 --> 00:43:19,724
And then she becomes one
of the actresses known

705
00:43:19,827 --> 00:43:22,344
for pretty-woman type roles
in Italy.

706
00:43:22,448 --> 00:43:26,275
And she makes this movie in 1964
at the age of 37,

707
00:43:26,379 --> 00:43:31,310
and then retires from acting
entirely in 1967 at age 40,

708
00:43:31,413 --> 00:43:34,379
and becomes a devotee
of mystical teachings

709
00:43:34,482 --> 00:43:38,827
and dies in a London
hospital alone and penniless

710
00:43:38,931 --> 00:43:41,551
in 1998 at the age of 71.

711
00:43:41,655 --> 00:43:42,965
Woo!
-Wow!

712
00:43:43,068 --> 00:43:45,241
-Had to do that just in view
of her place in history,

713
00:43:45,344 --> 00:43:49,793
because this is probably
the greatest of all her roles.

714
00:43:51,586 --> 00:43:55,344
Alright. The Battle for the
Black Glove is all tied up.

715
00:43:56,724 --> 00:43:58,689
Well, it's no longer tied
up at 30-30

716
00:43:58,793 --> 00:44:00,068
because I had to --

717
00:44:00,172 --> 00:44:04,344
I had to give six points
to the Team Bava for the --

718
00:44:04,448 --> 00:44:07,413
-Six points.
-For the more in-depth

719
00:44:07,517 --> 00:44:11,034
familiarity
with the hated aristocracy.

720
00:44:16,103 --> 00:44:21,241
So it's now 34 Argento,
36 Bava.

721
00:44:21,344 --> 00:44:23,000
And now we're going back
to Nicole

722
00:44:23,103 --> 00:44:25,379
responding to the phone call
from Frank,

723
00:44:25,482 --> 00:44:27,241
played by Dante Di Paolo,

724
00:44:27,344 --> 00:44:29,793
a former Broadway actor
famous for being the husband

725
00:44:29,896 --> 00:44:31,275
of Rosemary Clooney

726
00:44:31,379 --> 00:44:33,724
and for being one of those
singing, dancing brothers in

727
00:44:33,827 --> 00:44:36,862
"Seven Brides
for Seven Brothers."

728
00:44:36,965 --> 00:44:38,517
And apparently
he's a hophead now.

729
00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:39,965
So roll the movie.

730
00:44:41,793 --> 00:44:42,862
-Isn't he?

731
00:44:42,965 --> 00:44:44,413
-What's a hophead?
-He's a hophead.

732
00:44:44,517 --> 00:44:46,517
-Legal is never
going to let that go.

733
00:44:46,620 --> 00:44:48,103
-He's a hophead in this movie.
-I don't know what that means.

734
00:44:48,206 --> 00:44:49,344
-Well, he's dead now.

735
00:44:49,448 --> 00:44:51,758
-A hophead.
You know, like...

736
00:44:51,862 --> 00:44:53,586
Does hophead always mean heroin?

737
00:44:53,689 --> 00:44:55,827
Or does it sometimes mean
other drugs?

738
00:44:55,931 --> 00:44:57,482
He's a hophead.
-Who are you asking.

739
00:44:57,586 --> 00:44:59,620
I don't know.

740
00:44:59,724 --> 00:45:02,413
You know,
I'm remembering a line from --

741
00:45:02,517 --> 00:45:05,517
from James M. Cain novel,
"Mildred Pierce."

742
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:09,551
And she had to use men
like ladders.

743
00:45:09,655 --> 00:45:12,000
That's -- That's --
That's not the exact line.

744
00:45:12,103 --> 00:45:13,482
But that was the idea.

745
00:45:13,586 --> 00:45:15,206
And it seems from her interviews

746
00:45:15,310 --> 00:45:18,413
that Curt Jurgens
was the one man

747
00:45:18,517 --> 00:45:20,482
that Eva Bartok was truly
in love with.

748
00:45:20,586 --> 00:45:23,068
But she was constantly thrown
into these situations

749
00:45:23,172 --> 00:45:25,068
where her beauty
was the only thing

750
00:45:25,172 --> 00:45:28,448
that would get her
to the next job, so.

751
00:45:28,551 --> 00:45:31,137
-Girl's gotta do,
what a girl's gotta do, man.

752
00:45:31,241 --> 00:45:32,896
-Survivor. Right.
-That's right.

753
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,137
-Once it works on the Nazis,

754
00:45:34,241 --> 00:45:35,827
you know
it's got to work on everybody.

755
00:45:35,931 --> 00:45:38,379
-True.
-Anyway, she was --

756
00:45:38,482 --> 00:45:41,137
She was a diva on this set,
apparently.

757
00:45:41,241 --> 00:45:43,586
Uh, but I think
she's brilliant in the role.

758
00:45:43,689 --> 00:45:47,103
-Well, sometimes you
can earn the right to be a diva.

759
00:45:47,206 --> 00:45:48,379
-Well...
-Just saying.

760
00:45:48,482 --> 00:45:50,344
-I would say marrying
into the Gestapo

761
00:45:50,448 --> 00:45:52,551
in order to save your life
and the life of your mother,

762
00:45:52,655 --> 00:45:54,275
yeah, that counts for that right
to be diva.

763
00:45:54,379 --> 00:45:57,551
-Diva!
-We'll allow it, we'll allow it.

764
00:46:38,517 --> 00:46:40,620
Frank?

765
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:34,655
Frank?

766
00:47:34,758 --> 00:47:35,655
Frank?

767
00:47:56,034 --> 00:47:57,206
Frank.

768
00:47:59,724 --> 00:48:01,103
Frank?

769
00:48:56,310 --> 00:48:57,413
Aah!

770
00:49:00,724 --> 00:49:02,068
Aah!

771
00:51:04,482 --> 00:51:05,724
Aah!

772
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,517
-Have a good time, but don't
come home too late. Please.
-Good night.

773
00:52:45,655 --> 00:52:49,275
-Peggy.
-Marco. Why did you get out?

774
00:52:49,379 --> 00:52:55,275
-I wanted to keep you company
till Nicole gets in.

775
00:52:55,379 --> 00:52:57,862
Aren't you afraid
in there alone?

776
00:52:57,965 --> 00:53:00,310
-Well, to tell you the truth,
I'm awfully tired.

777
00:53:00,413 --> 00:53:02,068
I wanted to go
to sleep right away.

778
00:53:02,172 --> 00:53:04,103
-But don't you have to wait
till...

779
00:53:04,206 --> 00:53:06,758
till Nicole brings
a car back anyway?

780
00:53:08,620 --> 00:53:11,413
Please.
-Alright, alright.

781
00:53:11,517 --> 00:53:13,655
Come on up.
-Thanks.

782
00:53:13,758 --> 00:53:17,068
I couldn't have gone off
with an easy mind

783
00:53:17,172 --> 00:53:19,379
knowing you were alone
in this house.

784
00:53:40,724 --> 00:53:43,724
-Oh, Clarice,
you're still here?

785
00:53:43,827 --> 00:53:46,241
-Good evening, miss.

786
00:53:46,344 --> 00:53:49,000
Yes, I've just finished.

787
00:53:50,793 --> 00:53:53,827
Miss Nicole hasn't come home?
-No. She's gone to a party.

788
00:53:53,931 --> 00:53:57,448
She'd be home later.
She's always mothering us.

789
00:53:57,551 --> 00:53:58,758
-Well, I'll be running along.

790
00:53:58,862 --> 00:54:02,689
Oh, I left the dinner
heating on the stove.

791
00:54:02,793 --> 00:54:05,413
Oh, if Miss Nicole wants
that mess of hers,

792
00:54:05,517 --> 00:54:06,931
she only has to warm it up.

793
00:54:07,034 --> 00:54:10,103
-Thank you, Clarice.
Goodnight. See you tomorrow.

794
00:54:19,517 --> 00:54:21,551
-Peggy...

795
00:54:21,655 --> 00:54:24,482
you just don't
seem to understand.

796
00:54:24,586 --> 00:54:26,000
-Of course, I --
-Peggy,

797
00:54:26,103 --> 00:54:29,206
I'm tired of trying
to make you understand.

798
00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:31,896
Now, I've told you
a thousand times --

799
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,655
I've fallen in love with you.

800
00:54:36,758 --> 00:54:40,172
I don't care what happens,
but...

801
00:54:40,275 --> 00:54:41,586
-Calm down. Sit here.

802
00:54:52,793 --> 00:54:57,586
-You see, I'm not well.

803
00:54:57,689 --> 00:55:00,275
I know I look like a fool.

804
00:55:00,379 --> 00:55:03,586
That's what makes me mad.

805
00:55:03,689 --> 00:55:06,758
I'm ill and unlucky.
-Don't be like that.

806
00:55:06,862 --> 00:55:08,379
I understand you.
I'm your friend.

807
00:55:08,482 --> 00:55:10,103
Come on, cheer up.

808
00:55:16,827 --> 00:55:19,620
-I'll get yours.
-Don't touch it!

809
00:55:19,724 --> 00:55:21,620
Don't touch it!
-What's wrong?

810
00:55:21,724 --> 00:55:24,896
I just wanted cigarettes.
What's wrong?

811
00:55:26,310 --> 00:55:29,275
-I'll get the cigarettes.
You're just untidy in my bag.

812
00:55:46,172 --> 00:55:48,379
Hello?
-Good evening, Miss Peggy.

813
00:55:48,482 --> 00:55:49,793
This is Inspector Sylvester.

814
00:55:49,896 --> 00:55:53,275
I have to ask you something
about your car.

815
00:55:53,379 --> 00:55:55,517
Your car has been
found abandoned.

816
00:55:55,620 --> 00:55:58,172
I want to know
if it has been stolen.

817
00:55:58,275 --> 00:56:01,000
-No.
I lent it to my friend Nicole.

818
00:56:01,103 --> 00:56:04,551
Yes. Yes. She was in a hurry.

819
00:56:04,655 --> 00:56:07,344
A friend of hers
called to say he felt ill.

820
00:56:07,448 --> 00:56:09,586
But has something happened?

821
00:56:09,689 --> 00:56:11,482
-We better talk
about this in person.

822
00:56:11,586 --> 00:56:14,344
I'll come over
and see you right away.

823
00:56:14,448 --> 00:56:16,206
-Very well. I'll be waiting.

824
00:56:16,310 --> 00:56:18,620
-What's up?
-They found my car,

825
00:56:18,724 --> 00:56:20,137
but without Nicole.

826
00:56:20,241 --> 00:56:21,896
My God,
what could have happened?

827
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,793
-Is he coming here?
-Yes. He wants to talk to me.

828
00:56:25,896 --> 00:56:28,689
-Then...I better leave.

829
00:56:28,793 --> 00:56:31,034
I don't want the police
to find me here.

830
00:56:31,137 --> 00:56:34,137
-Yes. It's best no one knows
you've been here.

831
00:56:34,241 --> 00:56:35,379
-Yes.

832
00:56:35,482 --> 00:56:38,172
For me,
and especially for you.

833
00:56:38,275 --> 00:56:39,931
-Yes, I suppose so.

834
00:56:40,034 --> 00:56:42,862
-I'll see you tomorrow.
-Tomorrow.

835
00:57:22,379 --> 00:57:24,275
-October 16th,

I caught Peggy

836
00:57:24,379 --> 00:57:27,068
trying to steal $1,000

from my purse.

837
00:57:27,172 --> 00:57:29,551
She began to cry and explained

how much she needed it.

838
00:57:29,655 --> 00:57:32,206
She was pregnant and not able

to face the scandal.

839
00:57:32,310 --> 00:57:34,551
I felt sorry and I

loaned her the money.

840
00:57:34,655 --> 00:57:38,034
It means that tomorrow

I will ask him for $2,000.

841
00:59:42,103 --> 00:59:46,379
I burned it! I burned it.
I burned it. I burned it.

842
00:59:47,965 --> 00:59:49,413
Aah!

843
01:00:00,965 --> 01:00:02,724
Aah!

844
01:00:05,862 --> 01:00:07,034
Aah!

845
01:00:08,827 --> 01:00:10,310
Aah!

846
01:01:32,758 --> 01:01:34,310
-Miss Peggy?

847
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,758
-So this is the part
of the movie

848
01:02:45,862 --> 01:02:47,793
where the audience starts
to realize,

849
01:02:47,896 --> 01:02:50,241
"Oh my God, we're apparently
going to watch this whole movie

850
01:02:50,344 --> 01:02:52,413
from the point of view
of the killer."

851
01:02:52,517 --> 01:02:54,068
We're going to actually see
the stalking

852
01:02:54,172 --> 01:02:56,448
and the terror
and the actual death,

853
01:02:56,551 --> 01:02:59,206
instead of what would happen
traditionally in mystery movies

854
01:02:59,310 --> 01:03:02,482
where you find a dead body
or you see a single gunshot

855
01:03:02,586 --> 01:03:04,137
and then somebody collapses
to the ground.

856
01:03:04,241 --> 01:03:07,724
That's why many critics call
this the first slasher film,

857
01:03:07,827 --> 01:03:09,517
because no one had
ever seen a movie like this

858
01:03:09,620 --> 01:03:12,103
where the kills are celebrated.

859
01:03:12,206 --> 01:03:16,206
Um, Mario Bava was so
uninterested in the characters

860
01:03:16,310 --> 01:03:17,758
of the dead women

861
01:03:17,862 --> 01:03:19,689
that he didn't even bother
hiring actresses

862
01:03:19,793 --> 01:03:21,413
for most of those roles.

863
01:03:21,517 --> 01:03:23,482
Uh, Isabella,
the first victim

864
01:03:23,586 --> 01:03:26,620
was played by a woman named
Francesca Ungaro,

865
01:03:26,724 --> 01:03:29,551
who was never seen before
or after in any other movie,

866
01:03:29,655 --> 01:03:31,310
leading to the conclusion
of most people

867
01:03:31,413 --> 01:03:34,172
that Francesca Ungaro
is not even a real name.

868
01:03:34,275 --> 01:03:37,068
Nicole, the victim
in the antique shop,

869
01:03:37,172 --> 01:03:40,206
was played by Ariana Guarini,

870
01:03:40,310 --> 01:03:44,137
a fashion model who had --
she only had three screen roles.

871
01:03:44,241 --> 01:03:46,000
Mary Arden,
who plays Peggy,

872
01:03:46,103 --> 01:03:47,931
was a genuine big name
fashion model.

873
01:03:48,034 --> 01:03:50,758
She walked the runway
for Yves Saint Laurent

874
01:03:50,862 --> 01:03:53,655
and Christian Dior
and Karl Lagerfeld,

875
01:03:53,758 --> 01:03:55,344
but she had little interest
in acting.

876
01:03:55,448 --> 01:03:57,103
The scene we just watched,

877
01:03:57,206 --> 01:03:59,034
where she gets
repeatedly knocked down,

878
01:03:59,137 --> 01:04:01,551
was shot twice,
once with her,

879
01:04:01,655 --> 01:04:03,379
once with a stuntman in drag,

880
01:04:03,482 --> 01:04:05,241
because some
of those physical moves

881
01:04:05,344 --> 01:04:07,103
would be impossible otherwise.

882
01:04:07,206 --> 01:04:09,413
Which leads me
to the next topic in our

883
01:04:09,517 --> 01:04:13,655
Battle for the Black Glove,
Bava versus Argento.

884
01:04:13,758 --> 01:04:16,793
The topic is the ruination
of beauty.

885
01:04:16,896 --> 01:04:19,379
Is it true that in a giallo

886
01:04:19,482 --> 01:04:21,586
anything conventionally
beautiful

887
01:04:21,689 --> 01:04:24,137
must be either defaced
or destroyed

888
01:04:24,241 --> 01:04:26,137
or uglied up in some manner?

889
01:04:26,241 --> 01:04:28,862
And how do Bava and Argento

890
01:04:28,965 --> 01:04:34,310
compare in their ability
to reveal the intense ugliness

891
01:04:34,413 --> 01:04:35,896
beneath the veneer of beauty?

892
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,482
You're up first, Claire.

893
01:04:37,586 --> 01:04:40,310
-Well, not to keep bringing up
my fancy

894
01:04:40,413 --> 01:04:42,275
bachelor's degree
in art history,

895
01:04:42,379 --> 01:04:45,310
but female beauty is,
like,

896
01:04:45,413 --> 01:04:50,000
the maybe oldest focus
of all art, right?

897
01:04:50,103 --> 01:04:51,379
So there's something
kind of special

898
01:04:51,482 --> 01:04:54,758
about ruining that
in the giallo,

899
01:04:54,862 --> 01:04:57,862
which I insist is a reaction to,
you know,

900
01:04:57,965 --> 01:04:59,793
the old world crumbling away

901
01:04:59,896 --> 01:05:03,310
and the savage modern
world coming to bear on things.

902
01:05:03,413 --> 01:05:07,000
Bava does love defacing women,
like, literally.

903
01:05:07,103 --> 01:05:09,275
And you kind of gotta
respect that.

904
01:05:09,379 --> 01:05:11,344
That's a lot of fun,
and the things that he does

905
01:05:11,448 --> 01:05:14,517
to the beautiful Barbara Steele
are like legendary, right?

906
01:05:14,620 --> 01:05:18,034
But Argento is really attacking.

907
01:05:18,137 --> 01:05:20,655
He's -- He attacks
beautiful women in a way

908
01:05:20,758 --> 01:05:22,068
that seems to point out,

909
01:05:22,172 --> 01:05:24,689
as Sam was saying earlier,
their vulnerability

910
01:05:24,793 --> 01:05:28,172
and the constant imperiledness
of being an attractive,

911
01:05:28,275 --> 01:05:30,931
conceivably virginal
young woman in Italy.

912
01:05:31,034 --> 01:05:33,000
Um, and I think
it's really meaningful

913
01:05:33,103 --> 01:05:36,310
that this attack is so
often carried out by an older,

914
01:05:36,413 --> 01:05:39,275
uglier woman who's been there
and done that.

915
01:05:39,379 --> 01:05:41,724
Okay.

916
01:05:41,827 --> 01:05:44,379
-The rebuttal slot
belongs to Team Bava.

917
01:05:44,482 --> 01:05:45,758
And that's you, Troy.

918
01:05:45,862 --> 01:05:47,551
-Well,
that's one way of looking at it.

919
01:05:47,655 --> 01:05:50,896
Uh, whether it's right or not,
it's another thing altogether.

920
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:52,965
Um, I think, you know,

921
01:05:53,068 --> 01:05:54,931
given the fact
that we're talking about a film

922
01:05:55,034 --> 01:05:57,206
that is over 60 years old
at this point,

923
01:05:57,310 --> 01:06:00,206
it is extraordinary
how vicious and physical

924
01:06:00,310 --> 01:06:02,241
the kill scenes in this movie
are.

925
01:06:02,344 --> 01:06:06,344
Um, even if they're
not explicitly super gory,

926
01:06:06,448 --> 01:06:08,551
the blood is applied in a way
that's very theatrical.

927
01:06:08,655 --> 01:06:09,896
It looks like lipstick.

928
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,413
It's not the kind of
high-tech special effects

929
01:06:12,517 --> 01:06:14,000
that you'll see
in an Argento film,

930
01:06:14,103 --> 01:06:16,000
but they're physical,
and it's just that,

931
01:06:16,103 --> 01:06:19,586
that image of smashing the face
against the tree, for example,

932
01:06:19,689 --> 01:06:22,379
smashing the face
against a red hot stove.

933
01:06:22,482 --> 01:06:24,827
The scene where
Mary Arden is just beaten,

934
01:06:24,931 --> 01:06:28,172
beaten like crazy in that
beautifully appointed sort of

935
01:06:28,275 --> 01:06:30,965
drawing room that's taking place
with the fire in the background.

936
01:06:31,068 --> 01:06:34,551
Uh, Bava has this knack
for finding beauty

937
01:06:34,655 --> 01:06:36,862
in horrific situations.

938
01:06:36,965 --> 01:06:40,310
It's his use of lighting.
It's his use of decor.

939
01:06:40,413 --> 01:06:43,448
Uh, it's his very elegant
staging within the shots.

940
01:06:43,551 --> 01:06:45,448
And I think
that that's something that,

941
01:06:45,551 --> 01:06:48,965
yeah, there are more explicitly
violent films than this one.

942
01:06:49,068 --> 01:06:51,103
But for a movie from 1964,

943
01:06:51,206 --> 01:06:53,482
I think this still packs
a tremendous wallop.

944
01:06:53,586 --> 01:06:57,172
-Okay. Thank you, Troy.
Everybody can join in now.

945
01:06:57,275 --> 01:06:58,379
Sam. Lars.

946
01:06:58,482 --> 01:06:59,758
-Yeah, I think, uh,

947
01:06:59,862 --> 01:07:01,724
first of all,
I'll concede to Troy.

948
01:07:01,827 --> 01:07:04,551
I think Bava's image
can be quite vicious

949
01:07:04,655 --> 01:07:05,896
and especially the implications
of them.

950
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:07,103
You brought up
the Barbara Steele moment

951
01:07:07,206 --> 01:07:09,034
in "Black Sunday."

952
01:07:09,137 --> 01:07:10,827
Something that
you have to look away from

953
01:07:10,931 --> 01:07:12,482
even though you don't see
it explicitly.

954
01:07:12,586 --> 01:07:16,172
What captivates me about
how Argento frames a lot of this

955
01:07:16,275 --> 01:07:18,689
with respect to art
and beauty is,

956
01:07:18,793 --> 01:07:21,793
he's often looking
through a frame

957
01:07:21,896 --> 01:07:26,379
as if it is a screen or, um,
a portrait frame, a painting.

958
01:07:26,482 --> 01:07:28,620
You know, you're seeing them
in art galleries in "Deep Red."

959
01:07:28,724 --> 01:07:30,379
It's through the window.

960
01:07:30,482 --> 01:07:32,206
Uh, there's lots of windows
that, of course,

961
01:07:32,310 --> 01:07:35,827
figure into Argento's work
and the act of watching.

962
01:07:35,931 --> 01:07:39,965
So I think he is often tying
these things to the --

963
01:07:40,068 --> 01:07:42,655
the nature of --
of art and beauty

964
01:07:42,758 --> 01:07:45,137
and how we look at people
who are beautiful

965
01:07:45,241 --> 01:07:47,551
and then explicitly ruining
them.

966
01:07:47,655 --> 01:07:49,551
-Yeah. It's a --
There's --

967
01:07:49,655 --> 01:07:51,689
The aesthetic qualities of it

968
01:07:51,793 --> 01:07:54,068
still pop even all
these years later.

969
01:07:54,172 --> 01:07:56,000
And I think that's really
notable because a lot of people

970
01:07:56,103 --> 01:07:57,379
are probably watching this
for the first time

971
01:07:57,482 --> 01:07:59,413
and they're shocked.

972
01:07:59,517 --> 01:08:01,344
It's an old movie.
They can tell it's an old movie.

973
01:08:01,448 --> 01:08:02,896
You can tell by the way
people dress

974
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:04,275
and act
that it's an old movie,

975
01:08:04,379 --> 01:08:07,448
and yet you're seeing things
that are so graphic

976
01:08:07,551 --> 01:08:08,827
and so much more violent

977
01:08:08,931 --> 01:08:10,586
than would even
be appropriate in a,

978
01:08:10,689 --> 01:08:12,655
certainly,
a Hollywood movie of today.

979
01:08:12,758 --> 01:08:14,448
-But do you think Bava's
dead fashion models

980
01:08:14,551 --> 01:08:16,586
are better than Argento's
dead fashion models?

981
01:08:16,689 --> 01:08:17,862
-I think
I don't even think

982
01:08:17,965 --> 01:08:19,827
there's a dispute in this
matter.

983
01:08:19,931 --> 01:08:23,586
I think absolutely Bava kills
fashion models far better

984
01:08:23,689 --> 01:08:25,275
than Dario Argento
ever dreamed of doing.

985
01:08:25,379 --> 01:08:26,517
-Claire?

986
01:08:26,620 --> 01:08:28,068
-But those women are killed
by people

987
01:08:28,172 --> 01:08:30,655
who aren't necessarily doing it
for the fun of it.

988
01:08:30,758 --> 01:08:33,034
And I think this is
really important.

989
01:08:33,137 --> 01:08:35,551
You know, you ultimately
find out all this dreary,

990
01:08:35,655 --> 01:08:37,275
soap operatic nonsense

991
01:08:37,379 --> 01:08:39,310
that's behind the kills
in the Bava movie

992
01:08:39,413 --> 01:08:42,034
that, um, really is
like kind of a red herring

993
01:08:42,137 --> 01:08:45,310
that's supposed to distract
you from these, like,

994
01:08:45,413 --> 01:08:47,344
inheritance machinations
and stuff

995
01:08:47,448 --> 01:08:50,344
that are always present
in his films.

996
01:08:50,448 --> 01:08:51,689
In the Argento picture,

997
01:08:51,793 --> 01:08:55,448
you've got a woman
who's really after the business

998
01:08:55,551 --> 01:08:57,275
of destroying this beauty.

999
01:08:57,379 --> 01:09:00,758
It's emotional, it's personal,
it's more meaningful.

1000
01:09:00,862 --> 01:09:04,034
-That said,
I think that nobody

1001
01:09:04,137 --> 01:09:05,758
who doesn't enjoy
what they're doing

1002
01:09:05,862 --> 01:09:07,482
would kill with as much gusto

1003
01:09:07,586 --> 01:09:10,034
as the killer does in
"Blood and Black Lace."

1004
01:09:10,137 --> 01:09:11,862
-That killer loves it.
That killer loves to kill.

1005
01:09:11,965 --> 01:09:12,896
-That killer's getting off
on it.

1006
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:14,413
-Yeah.
-Absolutely.

1007
01:09:14,517 --> 01:09:17,413
-I have to assume Bava had
fewer materials to work with

1008
01:09:17,517 --> 01:09:18,724
when he was creating
those dead bodies.

1009
01:09:18,827 --> 01:09:20,344
-Oh, God. Yes.
-But I don't know.

1010
01:09:20,448 --> 01:09:21,862
-Oh, no.
-But, I mean --

1011
01:09:21,965 --> 01:09:23,517
-There's no comparison
between what Bava --

1012
01:09:23,620 --> 01:09:25,413
-He's a multi-generation
special effects guys.

1013
01:09:25,517 --> 01:09:26,689
-Yeah, yeah.
-You know?

1014
01:09:26,793 --> 01:09:28,724
Anything to say
about the special effects?

1015
01:09:28,827 --> 01:09:31,620
-Well, actually, with Bava,
because he's an FX guy,

1016
01:09:31,724 --> 01:09:34,862
you kind of sense that that's
where he's deriving his pleasure

1017
01:09:34,965 --> 01:09:37,517
is just from, like,
the fun of problem solving.

1018
01:09:37,620 --> 01:09:39,206
And maybe the less you
have to work with,

1019
01:09:39,310 --> 01:09:41,896
the more fun it is
to see what you can accomplish.

1020
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,931
And that, I think, is what
produces these like fabulous,

1021
01:09:45,034 --> 01:09:46,931
if crude, gore effects.

1022
01:09:47,034 --> 01:09:49,758
Where with Argento
you really get a sense

1023
01:09:49,862 --> 01:09:52,655
of this character's pain
and anguish

1024
01:09:52,758 --> 01:09:55,379
and sadomasochistic urges.

1025
01:09:55,482 --> 01:09:57,275
-I think
when you look at Bava's film,

1026
01:09:57,379 --> 01:10:01,310
it really is, um,
it's a photo book, you know?

1027
01:10:01,413 --> 01:10:04,068
You're -- You're -- You
are going through an art book,

1028
01:10:04,172 --> 01:10:07,000
and if you were to take 50
random frames out of this film

1029
01:10:07,103 --> 01:10:10,758
and publish it and say, this is
a monograph by Cindy Sherman,

1030
01:10:10,862 --> 01:10:12,034
people would believe it.

1031
01:10:12,137 --> 01:10:13,413
Like, it actually --

1032
01:10:13,517 --> 01:10:16,310
It actually
is fine art in its own way,

1033
01:10:16,413 --> 01:10:20,448
within this very, sort of pulpy,
very sort of popular context.

1034
01:10:20,551 --> 01:10:22,310
It is pulp art.

1035
01:10:22,413 --> 01:10:25,068
-Okay, well,
you guys convinced me.

1036
01:10:25,172 --> 01:10:29,965
I think I gotta give another six
for, uh, round two, uh, Bava.

1037
01:10:35,862 --> 01:10:37,310
-Whoa.
-Can't argue with that.

1038
01:10:37,413 --> 01:10:40,620
-Which makes the score 38-42.

1039
01:10:40,724 --> 01:10:42,965
Uh, and, um,

1040
01:10:43,068 --> 01:10:46,172
I'll just mention that
the ads for this movie promised,

1041
01:10:46,275 --> 01:10:49,068
"The 30 most beautiful women
in the world."

1042
01:10:50,689 --> 01:10:53,724
I'm not sure there are actually
30 women in the whole cast.

1043
01:10:53,827 --> 01:10:54,931
-30 people in the whole cast.

1044
01:10:55,034 --> 01:10:56,931
-Even if you count
extras and day players.

1045
01:10:57,034 --> 01:10:58,931
But a more honest ad
would have said,

1046
01:10:59,034 --> 01:11:01,103
"We're gonna take 30
of the most beautiful women

1047
01:11:01,206 --> 01:11:03,448
in the world and mess them up."

1048
01:11:03,551 --> 01:11:05,689
-Yeah.
-So, uh, anyway.

1049
01:11:05,793 --> 01:11:07,241
The score is 38-42.

1050
01:11:07,344 --> 01:11:09,517
We're going now back
to Inspector Sylvester's

1051
01:11:09,620 --> 01:11:12,000
intrepid search
for the mass killer

1052
01:11:12,103 --> 01:11:14,000
in "Blood and Black Lace."

1053
01:11:14,103 --> 01:11:15,655
Roll the film.

1054
01:11:17,551 --> 01:11:20,586
Mary Arden,
who we just talked about,

1055
01:11:20,689 --> 01:11:24,896
started her career as one
of The June Taylor Dancers.

1056
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,068
Nobody remembers
The June Taylor Dancers,

1057
01:11:27,172 --> 01:11:30,068
I don't think, but they
performed every Saturday night

1058
01:11:30,172 --> 01:11:31,551
on "The Jackie Gleason Show,"

1059
01:11:31,655 --> 01:11:33,896
which was a big deal
in the '50s and the '60s.

1060
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,551
It was a variety show,

1061
01:11:35,655 --> 01:11:38,586
and the money shot was
at the end of their routine,

1062
01:11:38,689 --> 01:11:42,172
this overhead camera
would turn the bodies

1063
01:11:42,275 --> 01:11:45,827
of The June Taylor Dancers
into a kaleidoscope, and --

1064
01:11:45,931 --> 01:11:47,517
-Are you sure
that's what it was?

1065
01:11:47,620 --> 01:11:49,689
-Well,
maybe not a kaleidoscope.

1066
01:11:49,793 --> 01:11:51,689
They're, like,
sprawled out on the floor,

1067
01:11:51,793 --> 01:11:54,275
moving their hands and legs
like a kaleidoscope.

1068
01:11:54,379 --> 01:11:56,758
Kaleidoscope dancing,
it was a thing.

1069
01:11:56,862 --> 01:11:58,275
-I feel like
you're making that up.

1070
01:11:58,379 --> 01:11:59,620
Well -- Well, we can't --

1071
01:11:59,724 --> 01:12:02,517
We can't ask Mary Arden
because she died in 2014.

1072
01:12:02,620 --> 01:12:04,379
But I think that's --
I think that's what it's called.

1073
01:12:04,482 --> 01:12:06,724
-There's probably footage out.
-Actually, that's a good idea.

1074
01:12:06,827 --> 01:12:08,793
Anybody who has
June Taylor footage

1075
01:12:08,896 --> 01:12:10,586
from "The Jackie Gleason Show,"

1076
01:12:10,689 --> 01:12:14,965
tell us if you can spot
Mary Arden in the kaleidoscope

1077
01:12:15,068 --> 01:12:18,275
and circle her on there
and send that to us.

1078
01:12:18,379 --> 01:12:20,172
-I promise you,
somebody's going to do that.

1079
01:12:20,275 --> 01:12:22,068
-It's such a good use of time.

1080
01:12:24,137 --> 01:12:26,896
Yeah, that's mutant, mutant AI.
I call this mutant AI.

1081
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:28,448
We'll just give them
the assignment

1082
01:12:28,551 --> 01:12:29,448
and it'll come back to us.

1083
01:12:29,551 --> 01:12:30,448
-Let's do it.

1084
01:13:11,965 --> 01:13:14,655
-Good evening.
I must ask you to excuse me.

1085
01:13:14,758 --> 01:13:18,241
There's no time to be visiting,
but it's a rather urgent matter.

1086
01:13:18,344 --> 01:13:20,620
-Please, make yourself
comfortable.

1087
01:13:20,724 --> 01:13:22,689
Why did you come here?

1088
01:13:24,344 --> 01:13:26,862
Charles, you may go, please.

1089
01:13:36,379 --> 01:13:39,965
Well, then?
-A little while ago, I...

1090
01:13:40,068 --> 01:13:42,896
I found Nicole lying in my shop.

1091
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:44,413
S-She's been murdered.

1092
01:13:44,517 --> 01:13:46,103
-Oh, my God.

1093
01:13:48,068 --> 01:13:50,758
-I'd gone to the salon
to pick up Nicole.

1094
01:13:52,482 --> 01:13:55,965
Remember?
I met you there at the time.

1095
01:13:56,068 --> 01:13:59,551
I looked for her everywhere,
but I couldn't find her.

1096
01:13:59,655 --> 01:14:01,931
Then I went back to my shop...

1097
01:14:02,034 --> 01:14:03,965
and believe me, I...

1098
01:14:04,068 --> 01:14:05,655
I've never seen such a mess.

1099
01:14:05,758 --> 01:14:09,206
-You'll pardon me,
but why have you come here

1100
01:14:09,310 --> 01:14:12,275
instead of calling the police?

1101
01:14:12,379 --> 01:14:14,793
-Nicole was my girlfriend.

1102
01:14:14,896 --> 01:14:17,793
She was murdered in my shop.

1103
01:14:17,896 --> 01:14:20,034
The police will be
accusing me of it.

1104
01:14:20,137 --> 01:14:23,896
I need an alibi,
and
you've
got to help me.

1105
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:27,275
-Me?
What have I got to do with it?

1106
01:14:27,379 --> 01:14:32,275
-Me? You're just as much
to blame for it as I am.

1107
01:14:32,379 --> 01:14:34,137
We've got to tell the police
that we're always together

1108
01:14:34,241 --> 01:14:37,241
at the salon, right to the end.

1109
01:14:37,344 --> 01:14:41,000
I'll back you up.
You do the same for me.

1110
01:14:41,103 --> 01:14:42,517
It's best for both of us.

1111
01:14:42,620 --> 01:14:43,965
-But you're mad.

1112
01:14:44,068 --> 01:14:47,172
The police have no reason
to accuse me of anything.

1113
01:14:47,275 --> 01:14:49,034
You're
the one
who's in trouble.

1114
01:14:49,137 --> 01:14:51,172
You really
could have killed her.

1115
01:14:51,275 --> 01:14:56,103
No, no. Call the police at once,
or
I'll
have to.

1116
01:14:56,206 --> 01:14:57,413
-Alright, go right ahead.

1117
01:14:57,517 --> 01:14:59,448
But don't forget to tell him
about your bad debt.

1118
01:14:59,551 --> 01:15:01,724
-What debts?

1119
01:15:01,827 --> 01:15:03,103
-You signed IOUs to Isabella

1120
01:15:03,206 --> 01:15:05,379
for a loan of
several thousand dollars

1121
01:15:05,482 --> 01:15:08,103
and couldn't pay the money back.

1122
01:15:08,206 --> 01:15:10,344
-Is it true?
Richard, you never told me.

1123
01:15:10,448 --> 01:15:12,758
Is it true?

1124
01:15:12,862 --> 01:15:14,827
My God. My God.

1125
01:15:14,931 --> 01:15:16,413
-You, my dear Marquis,
don't have a single dollar

1126
01:15:16,517 --> 01:15:17,862
to your name.

1127
01:15:17,965 --> 01:15:21,896
You're absolutely flat
and afraid of a scandal!

1128
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:26,103
Which is a good enough reason
for...for killing Isabella.

1129
01:15:26,206 --> 01:15:29,241
At same time eliminating
the possibilities of her diary

1130
01:15:29,344 --> 01:15:30,896
being read by the police.

1131
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:32,482
Who knows?

1132
01:15:32,586 --> 01:15:34,310
Perhaps her diary

1133
01:15:34,413 --> 01:15:36,241
had the dates on which
the payments were due.

1134
01:15:36,344 --> 01:15:38,517
-Which diary?
I know nothing of it.

1135
01:15:38,620 --> 01:15:39,896
-Don't lie, Richard.

1136
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,758
I told you Nicole
had found Isabella's diary.

1137
01:15:42,862 --> 01:15:47,482
-As you see, we sink
or swim together, Mr. Morell.

1138
01:15:47,586 --> 01:15:49,482
And if you don't want
the police meddling around

1139
01:15:49,586 --> 01:15:52,103
in your private affairs...

1140
01:15:52,206 --> 01:15:55,275
I suggest you take my advice.

1141
01:15:55,379 --> 01:15:59,172
I'm going back to my shop now
and call the inspector.

1142
01:15:59,275 --> 01:16:01,896
I'll tell him
that we were always together.

1143
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:03,965
Alright?

1144
01:16:04,068 --> 01:16:06,068
Good evening.

1145
01:17:01,551 --> 01:17:03,655
You've got to believe me,
I burned it!

1146
01:17:03,758 --> 01:17:05,172
I tell you, I burned it!

1147
01:17:05,275 --> 01:17:06,965
There was something
about my private life

1148
01:17:07,068 --> 01:17:08,379
I didn't want anybody
to know about.

1149
01:17:08,482 --> 01:17:10,620
You've got to believe me!
I burned it!

1150
01:17:10,724 --> 01:17:13,310
Aah!

1151
01:17:18,448 --> 01:17:22,724
Please believe me, I burned it!
You got to believe me!

1152
01:17:22,827 --> 01:17:24,103
Burned it!

1153
01:17:38,275 --> 01:17:40,793
No! No!

1154
01:17:40,896 --> 01:17:42,586
No!

1155
01:17:42,689 --> 01:17:43,724
No!

1156
01:17:43,827 --> 01:17:45,206
Aah!

1157
01:17:45,310 --> 01:17:46,379
Oh, God!

1158
01:17:48,896 --> 01:17:50,241
No!

1159
01:17:50,344 --> 01:17:52,172
No!

1160
01:17:52,275 --> 01:17:53,413
No!

1161
01:18:10,034 --> 01:18:13,827
-How do you think
this girl got in here?

1162
01:18:13,931 --> 01:18:15,310
-She had a key.

1163
01:18:15,413 --> 01:18:17,206
-How come?

1164
01:18:17,310 --> 01:18:19,448
-I'd given it to her.

1165
01:18:19,551 --> 01:18:20,931
She used to come and see me
now and then.

1166
01:18:21,034 --> 01:18:23,517
-Her too?

1167
01:18:23,620 --> 01:18:25,379
-Inspector,
please don't think that I...

1168
01:18:25,482 --> 01:18:28,724
Nicole was the reason
why I left Isabella.

1169
01:18:28,827 --> 01:18:31,965
-And how many other people
had a key to your door?

1170
01:18:32,068 --> 01:18:35,137
-No one else,
except myself naturally.

1171
01:18:35,241 --> 01:18:36,758
-Naturally.

1172
01:18:43,551 --> 01:18:47,137
Did you take drugs with her too?

1173
01:18:47,241 --> 01:18:48,241
-Why, what do you mean?
Inspector?

1174
01:18:48,344 --> 01:18:50,689
-Come, come, come, Scalo.

1175
01:18:50,793 --> 01:18:54,103
Don't try to fool me.

1176
01:18:54,206 --> 01:18:58,448
You've got the habit.
It's written all over your face.

1177
01:18:58,551 --> 01:19:01,965
If you like, I'll even tell you
where you get the stuff.

1178
01:19:02,068 --> 01:19:06,000
And, uh, as for the girls who...

1179
01:19:06,103 --> 01:19:09,379
who, shall we say,
keep you company...

1180
01:19:09,482 --> 01:19:12,517
they either try to get you
to drop the habit like Isabella,

1181
01:19:12,620 --> 01:19:16,551
or join you in it
like this one, for example.

1182
01:19:16,655 --> 01:19:20,034
-Alright. Perhaps.

1183
01:19:20,137 --> 01:19:22,655
But that doesn't
make me a murderer.

1184
01:19:22,758 --> 01:19:25,241
Besides, I -- I've got an alibi.

1185
01:19:25,344 --> 01:19:27,413
I was with --
-I haven't asked you...

1186
01:19:27,517 --> 01:19:29,551
for the time being.

1187
01:19:29,655 --> 01:19:32,586
We'll go on with it later.

1188
01:19:32,689 --> 01:19:35,482
-When?
-In my office.

1189
01:19:35,586 --> 01:19:36,551
Come along.

1190
01:20:17,034 --> 01:20:19,137
-Is this the one?
-Yes.

1191
01:20:19,241 --> 01:20:21,068
-Are you sure?
-Oh, yes.

1192
01:20:21,172 --> 01:20:24,344
Wait a minute.
I wrote down the first number.

1193
01:20:24,448 --> 01:20:26,413
Uh, 453.

1194
01:20:26,517 --> 01:20:29,103
You can see.

1195
01:20:29,206 --> 01:20:33,000
-Did you see a man or a woman?
-A man. I am sure.

1196
01:20:33,103 --> 01:20:34,620
He was dressed in black,

1197
01:20:34,724 --> 01:20:38,103
but he seemed
to not have a face.

1198
01:20:38,206 --> 01:20:41,586
-Perhaps he was wearing a mask.
-Perhaps. I don't know.

1199
01:20:41,689 --> 01:20:44,517
I was distracted by the horn.
-Which horn?

1200
01:20:44,620 --> 01:20:46,310
-The horn of this car,
Inspector.

1201
01:20:46,413 --> 01:20:48,517
I know it. I've serviced it.

1202
01:20:48,620 --> 01:20:51,517
It blew for a time,
and then it stopped.

1203
01:20:54,965 --> 01:20:57,586
-Has this car got
a burglar alarm, Sergeant?

1204
01:21:06,034 --> 01:21:09,758
-Yes. It's here,
in the glove compartment.

1205
01:21:09,862 --> 01:21:11,241
-How long did it blow?

1206
01:21:11,344 --> 01:21:15,137
-I don't know. I told you --
it wasn't for long.

1207
01:21:15,241 --> 01:21:17,758
This long?

1208
01:21:17,862 --> 01:21:20,172
-Stop. Not longer than that.

1209
01:21:20,275 --> 01:21:21,827
-If you don't know where it is,

1210
01:21:21,931 --> 01:21:25,620
it will take quite a while
to find it.

1211
01:21:25,724 --> 01:21:27,965
-We've wasted enough time
on this.

1212
01:21:28,068 --> 01:21:29,689
Let's go to the office.

1213
01:22:01,517 --> 01:22:04,275
Come in, please.

1214
01:22:04,379 --> 01:22:05,965
-Thank you.

1215
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,517
-Look at them carefully.

1216
01:22:16,620 --> 01:22:19,965
Have you ever seen any of them
in Miss Peggy's car?

1217
01:22:20,068 --> 01:22:21,344
-Good morning, Mr. Morlan.

1218
01:22:21,448 --> 01:22:24,275
-Morning, Clarice.
-Have you seen him in the car?

1219
01:22:24,379 --> 01:22:26,896
-Certainly.
She's seen me before in the car.

1220
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:30,275
On more than one occasion.
What's so strange about that?

1221
01:22:30,379 --> 01:22:33,586
-And who said there was?

1222
01:22:33,689 --> 01:22:35,310
Let's continue.

1223
01:22:35,413 --> 01:22:37,206
-Him.
I've seen
him
in the car.

1224
01:22:37,310 --> 01:22:40,724
-Of course she's seen me.
What does it prove?

1225
01:22:40,827 --> 01:22:44,620
This is all so ridiculous.
-Be quiet.

1226
01:22:44,724 --> 01:22:46,965
-You didn't see only me,
did you?

1227
01:22:47,068 --> 01:22:48,413
Open your eyes, you idiot!

1228
01:22:48,517 --> 01:22:52,758
Look at him.
Haven't you ever seen him?

1229
01:22:52,862 --> 01:22:54,137
-Inspector, do you only want
to know

1230
01:22:54,241 --> 01:22:56,517
if I saw them in the car?
-Why?

1231
01:22:58,206 --> 01:23:02,068
-Because...this gentleman
came into the flat

1232
01:23:02,172 --> 01:23:04,448
with Miss Peggy last night.

1233
01:23:04,551 --> 01:23:07,172
-We are beginning to see
the light now.

1234
01:23:07,275 --> 01:23:09,310
-You swine!
What are you getting at?

1235
01:23:09,413 --> 01:23:10,551
You want to ruin me?

1236
01:23:10,655 --> 01:23:13,689
I'll kill you! I'll kill you!

1237
01:23:13,793 --> 01:23:15,724
Why don't you confess?

1238
01:23:15,827 --> 01:23:18,379
Confess! Confess!

1239
01:23:18,482 --> 01:23:19,793
You're the murderer!

1240
01:23:19,896 --> 01:23:22,655
Inspector, look at his face.
He hates women!

1241
01:23:22,758 --> 01:23:25,482
Look at him! He's the killer,
I tell you! He's the killer!

1242
01:23:25,586 --> 01:23:27,896
He killed them all because
he couldn't go with any of them!

1243
01:23:29,448 --> 01:23:30,724
Why don't you tell the inspector

1244
01:23:30,827 --> 01:23:34,241
that your wife left you
for that very reason?

1245
01:23:34,344 --> 01:23:36,620
My pills...
My pills!

1246
01:23:43,068 --> 01:23:45,413
-Try to hold him still.
He could hurt himself.

1247
01:23:45,517 --> 01:23:47,206
Take him to the hospital.

1248
01:23:54,862 --> 01:23:57,586
-Didn't any of you know
he was an epileptic?

1249
01:23:57,689 --> 01:24:00,586
-No, I didn't.

1250
01:24:00,689 --> 01:24:02,379
-You can go home now.

1251
01:24:05,620 --> 01:24:07,310
-Goodbye, Clarice.

1252
01:24:09,172 --> 01:24:12,655
-I'm sorry, but I'm afraid
I'll have to ask you

1253
01:24:12,758 --> 01:24:14,827
to stay here, Mr. Morlan.

1254
01:24:14,931 --> 01:24:16,448
You too, Mr. Lazar.

1255
01:24:16,551 --> 01:24:18,000
-What do you mean stay here?

1256
01:24:18,103 --> 01:24:21,137
-I mean I shall have warrants
made out for your arrest.

1257
01:24:21,241 --> 01:24:22,827
-Uh...
pardon me, Inspector,

1258
01:24:22,931 --> 01:24:26,103
what exactly is
the reason behind this?

1259
01:24:29,793 --> 01:24:34,000
-Miss Nicole's murderer had used
Peggy's car on other occasions.

1260
01:24:34,103 --> 01:24:38,310
That's why he knew exactly where
the burglar alarm was hidden.

1261
01:24:38,413 --> 01:24:40,275
-Can I go now?
-And me?

1262
01:24:40,379 --> 01:24:43,517
-No. You both stay, too.

1263
01:24:43,620 --> 01:24:45,965
-But that's ridiculous.
I've got an alibi.

1264
01:24:46,068 --> 01:24:48,620
I -- The Marquis
has confirmed it.

1265
01:24:48,724 --> 01:24:51,551
-It's true.
We were together.

1266
01:24:51,655 --> 01:24:54,827
-Oh, don't worry.
I haven't forgotten it.

1267
01:24:54,931 --> 01:24:57,172
You both were at his house
till 11:00

1268
01:24:57,275 --> 01:24:59,724
while Miss Nicole
was murdered at 10:00.

1269
01:24:59,827 --> 01:25:03,034
-So what do you want with us?
-Well...

1270
01:25:03,137 --> 01:25:07,655
when I called Miss Peggy
to say that I had found her car,

1271
01:25:07,758 --> 01:25:09,827
it was about 11:30.

1272
01:25:09,931 --> 01:25:12,827
About 15 minutes later,
I was at her apartment.

1273
01:25:12,931 --> 01:25:17,103
She wasn't there, and her
apartment had been ransacked.

1274
01:25:17,206 --> 01:25:19,862
Someone could have killed her
and hidden her body

1275
01:25:19,965 --> 01:25:21,379
in the meantime.

1276
01:25:21,482 --> 01:25:23,137
And as far as that goes,
gentlemen,

1277
01:25:23,241 --> 01:25:26,034
your alibi
isn't really worth much.

1278
01:25:36,862 --> 01:25:40,034
-Okay, that's German actor
Thomas Reiner

1279
01:25:40,137 --> 01:25:43,241
as Inspector Silvestri
interrogating all the men.

1280
01:25:43,344 --> 01:25:44,965
And of course,
all the men look guilty

1281
01:25:45,068 --> 01:25:46,482
because they all have secrets,

1282
01:25:46,586 --> 01:25:49,482
and also because Bava does
those Sergio Leone style

1283
01:25:49,586 --> 01:25:52,344
extreme close ups
of their nervous faces.

1284
01:25:52,448 --> 01:25:55,517
This movie was mostly financed
by West German investors,

1285
01:25:55,620 --> 01:25:57,241
and they were
apparently expecting it to be

1286
01:25:57,344 --> 01:25:59,034
a traditional crime picture

1287
01:25:59,137 --> 01:26:01,862
in the style of the British
mystery writer Edgar Wallace,

1288
01:26:01,965 --> 01:26:04,206
who was extremely popular
in Germany.

1289
01:26:04,310 --> 01:26:06,758
There were about five
Edgar Wallace movies

1290
01:26:06,862 --> 01:26:08,413
released
every year in Germany.

1291
01:26:08,517 --> 01:26:10,137
They were called Krimis,

1292
01:26:10,241 --> 01:26:12,724
and the reason I mention it

1293
01:26:12,827 --> 01:26:14,517
is that Edgar Wallace
had written a novel

1294
01:26:14,620 --> 01:26:17,137
in 1930 called "Whiteface,"

1295
01:26:17,241 --> 01:26:20,758
that became a giallo
book release in 1933.

1296
01:26:20,862 --> 01:26:22,931
Um, you know,

1297
01:26:23,034 --> 01:26:26,172
most crime thrillers became
gialli at one time or another,

1298
01:26:26,275 --> 01:26:31,275
but "Whiteface" was rereleased
by Mondadori in 1963,

1299
01:26:31,379 --> 01:26:33,862
right when the script
was being written

1300
01:26:33,965 --> 01:26:35,827
for "Blood and Black Lace"

1301
01:26:35,931 --> 01:26:40,000
and "Whiteface" has
a masked gunman who looks like,

1302
01:26:40,103 --> 01:26:42,275
you guessed it,
the killer in this movie.

1303
01:26:42,379 --> 01:26:44,000
My point being,
the Italians steal

1304
01:26:44,103 --> 01:26:45,655
everything from everywhere.

1305
01:26:45,758 --> 01:26:52,620
So the topic in this break
is we're at 38 to 42.

1306
01:26:52,724 --> 01:26:56,000
Team Bava is ahead in
the Battle for the Black Glove.

1307
01:26:56,103 --> 01:26:58,344
And the topic is
law enforcement.

1308
01:26:58,448 --> 01:27:01,275
giallo films are famous
for featuring clueless cops,

1309
01:27:01,379 --> 01:27:04,931
stern cops,
but never corrupt cops.

1310
01:27:05,034 --> 01:27:07,275
Which is strange
because they do have a lot

1311
01:27:07,379 --> 01:27:08,896
of corrupt cops in Italy.

1312
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,689
So, Troy,
you're up for Team Bava.

1313
01:27:11,793 --> 01:27:14,965
Tell me about Thomas Reiner
and the cops in Bava films.

1314
01:27:15,068 --> 01:27:17,896
-Well, I think the edge
that Bava has over Argento

1315
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:19,379
when it comes to the police
in his films

1316
01:27:19,482 --> 01:27:20,724
is that the police
really don't have much

1317
01:27:20,827 --> 01:27:22,379
of a presence in general.

1318
01:27:22,482 --> 01:27:24,172
So I think
that's kind of a plus.

1319
01:27:24,275 --> 01:27:25,586
In this particular film,

1320
01:27:25,689 --> 01:27:27,137
because we're dealing with
a movie that,

1321
01:27:27,241 --> 01:27:29,931
yes, it has the West German
financing involved.

1322
01:27:30,034 --> 01:27:31,689
It ties it in
with the Krimi films,

1323
01:27:31,793 --> 01:27:33,586
which is not a consistency,
by the way.

1324
01:27:33,689 --> 01:27:37,586
It's, you know, crime thriller
films based on Edgar Wallace.

1325
01:27:37,689 --> 01:27:40,034
Um, they wanted to have that
kind of police presence in it.

1326
01:27:40,137 --> 01:27:41,655
And so Thomas Reiner
makes sense.

1327
01:27:41,758 --> 01:27:44,758
He's a German actor.
He represents that part of it.

1328
01:27:44,862 --> 01:27:46,896
You know, honestly,
when it comes to comparing him

1329
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,241
with, uh,
Enrico Maria Salerno

1330
01:27:49,344 --> 01:27:50,793
"The Bird
with the Crystal Plumage,"

1331
01:27:50,896 --> 01:27:52,896
Enrico Maria Salerno makes
a better impression.

1332
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,482
It has to be said
he's a very charismatic actor

1333
01:27:55,586 --> 01:27:57,827
and he makes for very likable
character, I think,

1334
01:27:57,931 --> 01:27:59,965
as much as
a cop can be likable in a film.

1335
01:28:00,068 --> 01:28:03,068
Um, but in terms
of this particular movie,

1336
01:28:03,172 --> 01:28:06,103
he is kind of this plodding,
emotionless,

1337
01:28:06,206 --> 01:28:08,275
but also very judgy character.

1338
01:28:08,379 --> 01:28:11,896
Um, kind of, you know,
implying along the line that,

1339
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:13,620
well, they, you know,
they brought it on themselves

1340
01:28:13,724 --> 01:28:14,965
because they lived
this kind of lifestyle

1341
01:28:15,068 --> 01:28:17,482
and everything else, uh,
which is sometimes mistaken

1342
01:28:17,586 --> 01:28:19,517
as kind of the director's
point of view, which it isn't.

1343
01:28:19,620 --> 01:28:21,344
I don't think that's true.

1344
01:28:21,448 --> 01:28:22,758
Okay.

1345
01:28:22,862 --> 01:28:25,241
So you think the West Germans
said,

1346
01:28:25,344 --> 01:28:27,137
"You need a couple
of German actors.

1347
01:28:27,241 --> 01:28:29,172
We want you to use a couple
of German actors in this movie."

1348
01:28:29,275 --> 01:28:31,655
And they said, "Okay,
well, you can be the cop."

1349
01:28:32,862 --> 01:28:34,793
-It 's the part nobody wanted.

1350
01:28:34,896 --> 01:28:36,482
-Alright, Claire,
you're due for a rebuttal.

1351
01:28:36,586 --> 01:28:37,620
Alright.

1352
01:28:37,724 --> 01:28:39,655
Is your cop better
than Troy's cop?

1353
01:28:39,758 --> 01:28:41,034
-Well, first,
I really need to --

1354
01:28:41,137 --> 01:28:44,310
to address, like,
an elephant in the room here.

1355
01:28:44,413 --> 01:28:48,689
We're all thinking when
we look at Inspector Silvestri,

1356
01:28:48,793 --> 01:28:50,724
Liam Neeson in "The Naked Gun,"
right?

1357
01:28:50,827 --> 01:28:53,275
Like, every minute that he's on,

1358
01:28:53,379 --> 01:28:55,137
he's hilarious.

1359
01:28:55,241 --> 01:28:56,689
He doesn't even have to do
jokes.

1360
01:28:56,793 --> 01:28:58,931
I find him totally hilarious,
but.

1361
01:28:59,034 --> 01:29:01,241
So, in a sense,

1362
01:29:01,344 --> 01:29:03,620
Inspector Silvestri
is a very good giallo cop.

1363
01:29:03,724 --> 01:29:05,344
Specifically because he --

1364
01:29:05,448 --> 01:29:07,758
he becomes so
totally irrelevant.

1365
01:29:07,862 --> 01:29:08,896
-Yeah.

1366
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:10,827
-Um,
which is great and very funny.

1367
01:29:10,931 --> 01:29:14,206
But the problem is that he's
in way too much of the movie.

1368
01:29:14,310 --> 01:29:17,586
So quite a few of these scenes
are these long, dry,

1369
01:29:17,689 --> 01:29:21,103
you know, it's like
something out of "Dragnet" and,

1370
01:29:21,206 --> 01:29:23,517
um, it's too much, actually.

1371
01:29:23,620 --> 01:29:25,344
And it's way too much
for a movie --

1372
01:29:25,448 --> 01:29:28,172
The really strange thing
about "Blood and Black Lace"

1373
01:29:28,275 --> 01:29:32,103
is there's 50,000 people in it
and no protagonist.

1374
01:29:32,206 --> 01:29:33,758
There's like,
no one to latch on to.

1375
01:29:33,862 --> 01:29:35,103
There's no hero of this movie.

1376
01:29:35,206 --> 01:29:37,551
There certainly is
no reluctant detective.

1377
01:29:37,655 --> 01:29:40,068
Morosini is really great
because he understands that

1378
01:29:40,172 --> 01:29:42,551
what he's got to do
is weaponize Sam Dalmas.

1379
01:29:42,655 --> 01:29:44,896
He just winds him up
and lets him go.

1380
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:46,896
And then we get the movie
we're expecting to see

1381
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:48,551
and the case gets solved.

1382
01:29:48,655 --> 01:29:50,344
-And Morosini's --
Morosini's mustache

1383
01:29:50,448 --> 01:29:52,517
just makes
an incredible impression.

1384
01:29:52,620 --> 01:29:55,344
It's something -- His whole look
with the -- with the fedora,

1385
01:29:55,448 --> 01:29:57,482
he does a great job
at feeling like

1386
01:29:57,586 --> 01:29:59,793
he's coming out of
another movie, an older film,

1387
01:29:59,896 --> 01:30:01,586
a more classical noir,

1388
01:30:01,689 --> 01:30:03,275
and I think does a better job
at clashing

1389
01:30:03,379 --> 01:30:08,586
with kind of the evolving
modern aesthetic and society

1390
01:30:08,689 --> 01:30:10,655
that is in
Argento's giallo films.

1391
01:30:10,758 --> 01:30:13,689
So I really like
his kind of weird presence

1392
01:30:13,793 --> 01:30:15,413
and how it hangs
over the protagonist.

1393
01:30:15,517 --> 01:30:18,103
-The saving grace
with Silvestri's scenes,

1394
01:30:18,206 --> 01:30:21,068
which I agree, they're the least
interesting part of the film,

1395
01:30:21,172 --> 01:30:22,482
but it's how Bava shoots them,

1396
01:30:22,586 --> 01:30:24,655
so, you know,
he's able to take a bland,

1397
01:30:24,758 --> 01:30:27,000
dull sequence and always find
an interesting angle,

1398
01:30:27,103 --> 01:30:30,103
interesting composition,
good lighting, and make it work.

1399
01:30:30,206 --> 01:30:32,034
Um, whereas the a --

1400
01:30:32,137 --> 01:30:34,551
A lot of police investigation
scenes in these movies,

1401
01:30:34,655 --> 01:30:36,137
they tend to be the weak part.

1402
01:30:36,241 --> 01:30:37,724
-What do you think, Lars?

1403
01:30:37,827 --> 01:30:39,793
-I mean, I admire the fact

1404
01:30:39,896 --> 01:30:42,827
that you guys are
such big fans of cops,

1405
01:30:42,931 --> 01:30:46,620
and your support of cops
is truly inspiring.

1406
01:30:46,724 --> 01:30:49,551
But I do, I really do agree
with Troy's point that,

1407
01:30:49,655 --> 01:30:52,758
like, cops are best when
they have the least amount

1408
01:30:52,862 --> 01:30:54,275
to do in a film,

1409
01:30:54,379 --> 01:30:57,689
and I think he kind of comes in
and he's a bit of a curtain,

1410
01:30:57,793 --> 01:30:59,655
you know,
bringer down curtain raiser.

1411
01:30:59,758 --> 01:31:01,241
Um, you couldn't just have,

1412
01:31:01,344 --> 01:31:04,137
like, wall to wall kills
and action in the movie.

1413
01:31:04,241 --> 01:31:06,103
So you have to have something
that comes through

1414
01:31:06,206 --> 01:31:07,655
and is a palate cleanser.

1415
01:31:07,758 --> 01:31:10,068
And that's what
the boring cop is in this,

1416
01:31:10,172 --> 01:31:13,586
as in a lot of giallos actually,
is kind of a palate cleanser,

1417
01:31:13,689 --> 01:31:15,275
which kind of helps us move
from place to place.

1418
01:31:15,379 --> 01:31:18,965
But you guys love cops,
I appreciate that.

1419
01:31:19,068 --> 01:31:23,310
Um, for me, I am fine with the
cop just being a curtain raiser.

1420
01:31:23,413 --> 01:31:25,068
-He has to fall back on jokes.
-Okay.

1421
01:31:25,172 --> 01:31:27,344
-To get the points.
-It's pathetic. It's really sad.

1422
01:31:27,448 --> 01:31:29,482
-I'm into the crazy idea that
we're doing

1423
01:31:29,586 --> 01:31:32,724
an entertainment show
or something on your network.

1424
01:31:32,827 --> 01:31:34,862
-Alright, I'm gonna have to say
for cop sequences,

1425
01:31:34,965 --> 01:31:37,758
Argento gets the nod
because bring in the perverts.

1426
01:31:37,862 --> 01:31:41,620
That guy is just
so much more interesting

1427
01:31:41,724 --> 01:31:43,379
than Inspector Silvestri,

1428
01:31:43,482 --> 01:31:46,793
even if you're trying to show
cluelessness in the copdom.

1429
01:31:52,758 --> 01:31:55,482
Out of the ten, I'm gonna
give a seven to Argento

1430
01:31:55,586 --> 01:31:58,068
and three to Bava on cops,

1431
01:31:58,172 --> 01:32:01,689
because I think Bava was just
totally uninterested in cops,

1432
01:32:01,793 --> 01:32:03,206
whether they were good
or bad or whatever.

1433
01:32:03,310 --> 01:32:04,620
They were just cops.

1434
01:32:04,724 --> 01:32:09,103
So that brings it to 45-45
and, um...

1435
01:32:09,206 --> 01:32:10,517
-Ooh!

1436
01:32:10,620 --> 01:32:13,068
-And now we're
going to go back to the movie.

1437
01:32:13,172 --> 01:32:16,275
But I would like
to put in a word for Denmark,

1438
01:32:16,379 --> 01:32:19,068
because I love Denmark.

1439
01:32:19,172 --> 01:32:23,655
And out of those German Krimi
based on Edgar Wallace novels,

1440
01:32:23,758 --> 01:32:27,206
32 of them were actually made
by a Danish film company

1441
01:32:27,310 --> 01:32:31,310
called Rialto that had been
formed in Copenhagen in 1897.

1442
01:32:31,413 --> 01:32:33,034
Constantin Philipsen,
the founder,

1443
01:32:33,137 --> 01:32:35,965
was one of the earliest
European filmmakers.

1444
01:32:36,068 --> 01:32:38,620
And it's kind of strange
because after World War II,

1445
01:32:38,724 --> 01:32:41,793
the Danes didn't
really like the Germans.

1446
01:32:41,896 --> 01:32:44,931
So if you go to the
Resistance Museum in Copenhagen,

1447
01:32:45,034 --> 01:32:48,137
you'll see just how much
they despised the Germans.

1448
01:32:48,241 --> 01:32:51,827
So the idea of
a Danish capitalist dominating

1449
01:32:51,931 --> 01:32:53,931
the popular culture in Germany

1450
01:32:54,034 --> 01:32:57,586
in the post-war years
is kind of ironic.

1451
01:32:57,689 --> 01:32:59,965
And that's it.
We're at 45-45.

1452
01:33:00,068 --> 01:33:01,724
We're going to go right down
to the wire.

1453
01:33:01,827 --> 01:33:04,689
And now we return
to the Mario Bava classic

1454
01:33:04,793 --> 01:33:06,068
"Blood and Black Lace,"

1455
01:33:06,172 --> 01:33:08,172
which was released in Italy
under the title

1456
01:33:08,275 --> 01:33:10,413
"Six Women for the Murderer."

1457
01:33:10,517 --> 01:33:12,034
Roll the movie.

1458
01:33:12,137 --> 01:33:14,793
Troy, do you have Italian,
Troy?

1459
01:33:14,896 --> 01:33:16,344
Does anybody here
have Italian?

1460
01:33:16,448 --> 01:33:17,758
-Just say it in Italian?

1461
01:33:17,862 --> 01:33:20,034
-Can you say "Six Women
for the Murderer" in Italian?

1462
01:33:20,137 --> 01:33:21,793
-I can do it.
I don't know if it's very good.

1463
01:33:21,896 --> 01:33:22,862
-But I can --
-Try it.

1464
01:33:22,965 --> 01:33:24,758
-"Sei donne per l'assassino."

1465
01:33:24,862 --> 01:33:26,827
-I appreciate the fact
that you do not use

1466
01:33:26,931 --> 01:33:29,068
Italian titles in your book.

1467
01:33:29,172 --> 01:33:30,965
Some of -- Some of the hardcore
giallo people

1468
01:33:31,068 --> 01:33:33,517
will only use the long
Italian titles,

1469
01:33:33,620 --> 01:33:35,896
and we end up having to use
Google Translate

1470
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:37,482
'cause we don't know what movie
they're talking about.

1471
01:33:37,586 --> 01:33:38,413
-Right.

1472
01:34:05,310 --> 01:34:06,862
9:00.

1473
01:34:23,758 --> 01:34:25,344
-Why must we sit in the dark?

1474
01:34:25,448 --> 01:34:27,448
As if we weren't
scared enough already...

1475
01:34:29,586 --> 01:34:32,000
-Do what you want,
but please try to keep calm.

1476
01:34:32,103 --> 01:34:34,275
-How are we supposed
to keep calm?

1477
01:34:34,379 --> 01:34:36,586
Doesn't what's happening
bother you?

1478
01:34:36,689 --> 01:34:38,724
-I'm frightened too.

1479
01:34:38,827 --> 01:34:41,310
Don't think I'm not.

1480
01:34:41,413 --> 01:34:44,758
But getting hysterical
doesn't help.

1481
01:34:44,862 --> 01:34:47,275
-If only the men
would come back.

1482
01:34:47,379 --> 01:34:49,172
We're all women left alone.

1483
01:34:55,413 --> 01:34:57,689
-Hello?

1484
01:34:57,793 --> 01:35:00,965
Oh, Mr. Morlan, at last.
What happened?

1485
01:35:05,172 --> 01:35:06,241
What?

1486
01:35:08,655 --> 01:35:10,965
But...

1487
01:35:11,068 --> 01:35:12,896
But how can they?

1488
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:13,965
I mean...

1489
01:35:14,068 --> 01:35:16,310
I mean, on what grounds?

1490
01:35:22,241 --> 01:35:23,551
I see.

1491
01:35:25,724 --> 01:35:26,862
Alright.

1492
01:35:28,931 --> 01:35:31,379
Alright.

1493
01:35:31,482 --> 01:35:33,379
Of course.

1494
01:35:33,482 --> 01:35:35,000
Alright, don't worry.

1495
01:35:36,655 --> 01:35:37,862
Goodbye.

1496
01:35:46,586 --> 01:35:48,172
They are holding
all five of them.

1497
01:35:48,275 --> 01:35:50,068
-But why?

1498
01:35:52,172 --> 01:35:55,862
-The police obviously think
one of them is the murderer.

1499
01:35:55,965 --> 01:35:57,275
-I thought so.

1500
01:35:59,448 --> 01:36:01,482
-Madam...

1501
01:36:01,586 --> 01:36:04,344
please, can we go?
-Oh.

1502
01:36:04,448 --> 01:36:06,000
Oh, yes, yes. Go.

1503
01:36:06,103 --> 01:36:08,793
-Goodbye.

1504
01:36:08,896 --> 01:36:11,000
Goodnight.
-Goodnight, madam.

1505
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:16,172
-How I envy them.
They live together.

1506
01:36:16,275 --> 01:36:19,034
At least they keep
each other company.

1507
01:36:19,137 --> 01:36:21,448
-I must go, madam.

1508
01:36:21,551 --> 01:36:23,689
-Alright.

1509
01:36:26,206 --> 01:36:30,758
-Wait. Listen, why don't you
come home and sleep with me?

1510
01:36:30,862 --> 01:36:32,862
-What?
I live a few yards from here,

1511
01:36:32,965 --> 01:36:35,827
and you want me to come out
into the countryside?

1512
01:36:35,931 --> 01:36:38,517
-Then I could come
and stay at your place?

1513
01:36:38,620 --> 01:36:41,793
-No, I'm sorry,
but I'd rather be alone.

1514
01:36:41,896 --> 01:36:45,241
Anyway, you'd be even
more afraid at my house.

1515
01:36:45,344 --> 01:36:46,655
-But aren't you afraid?

1516
01:36:46,758 --> 01:36:48,793
Isabella and Peggy
live with you.

1517
01:36:48,896 --> 01:36:51,965
Isabella has been killed,
and Peggy...

1518
01:36:52,068 --> 01:36:54,448
-Yes, I know.

1519
01:36:54,551 --> 01:36:57,344
But I don't think anything
would happen tonight.

1520
01:36:58,448 --> 01:37:00,862
All the men are under arrest.

1521
01:37:00,965 --> 01:37:03,896
And I'm sure the murderer
is one of them.

1522
01:37:07,482 --> 01:37:10,517
Goodbye, madam.
-Goodnight.

1523
01:37:10,620 --> 01:37:13,586
-Madam, I'm not going home.

1524
01:37:13,689 --> 01:37:16,034
I'll sleep here.
-No, you won't, dear.

1525
01:37:16,137 --> 01:37:17,827
You're going home
just like the others.

1526
01:37:17,931 --> 01:37:19,448
-I'm all alone.

1527
01:37:19,551 --> 01:37:21,689
I live out in the country,
not here in town.

1528
01:37:21,793 --> 01:37:23,310
-Now, Greta, listen to me.

1529
01:37:23,413 --> 01:37:25,586
Tomorrow we have
a very hard day ahead of us.

1530
01:37:25,689 --> 01:37:29,379
The show must go on, you know.
Now, look.

1531
01:37:29,482 --> 01:37:32,310
Isabella and Nicole were mixed
up in some ugly business

1532
01:37:32,413 --> 01:37:34,655
that has nothing to do
with the rest of us,

1533
01:37:34,758 --> 01:37:36,586
so we have nothing
to be afraid of.

1534
01:37:36,689 --> 01:37:39,482
Do you understand?
Go now.

1535
01:37:39,586 --> 01:37:40,965
Don't worry.

1536
01:37:41,068 --> 01:37:43,758
-Thank you. Goodnight, madam.
-Goodnight.

1537
01:38:12,655 --> 01:38:14,034
-Goodnight.

1538
01:38:16,137 --> 01:38:17,034
Be careful.

1539
01:40:32,206 --> 01:40:35,137
-Good evening, miss.
The marquis rang to say

1540
01:40:35,241 --> 01:40:38,827
he'd be detained in town
by an engagement.

1541
01:40:38,931 --> 01:40:40,724
-I know. I'll dine alone.

1542
01:40:40,827 --> 01:40:42,344
-Immediately, miss.

1543
01:41:38,482 --> 01:41:40,793
Hello? Hello?!

1544
01:42:57,103 --> 01:42:59,344
-Your tea, miss.

1545
01:42:59,448 --> 01:43:00,931
-Just a moment, please!

1546
01:43:31,206 --> 01:43:33,000
Come in.

1547
01:43:51,827 --> 01:43:55,448
It's alright, Charles.
I'll take care of the rest.

1548
01:43:55,551 --> 01:43:56,758
-Yes, ma'am.

1549
01:47:11,551 --> 01:47:16,172
-So the beautiful but dead Greta
is played by Lea Lander.

1550
01:47:16,275 --> 01:47:18,034
She uses a different name
in the credits,

1551
01:47:18,137 --> 01:47:19,586
who was a German model,

1552
01:47:19,689 --> 01:47:22,034
and the reason
her character name is Greta

1553
01:47:22,137 --> 01:47:24,241
is that she was famous
among Italian directors

1554
01:47:24,344 --> 01:47:27,413
for bearing a striking
resemblance to Greta Garbo.

1555
01:47:27,517 --> 01:47:29,724
She actually moved to Italy
just to do this movie

1556
01:47:29,827 --> 01:47:33,413
after studying acting in Munich
for five years.

1557
01:47:33,517 --> 01:47:35,413
So one thing
you notice about this movie

1558
01:47:35,517 --> 01:47:39,551
is that there's never really
any grieving when somebody dies.

1559
01:47:39,655 --> 01:47:42,310
There's hardly even any sadness.

1560
01:47:42,413 --> 01:47:46,482
Um, Bava has been accused
of cynicism, sadism,

1561
01:47:46,586 --> 01:47:48,344
and so has Argento
for that matter.

1562
01:47:48,448 --> 01:47:50,379
So let's make
that the next topic.

1563
01:47:50,482 --> 01:47:52,310
Are these guys sadists?

1564
01:47:52,413 --> 01:47:55,689
Is sadism part
of the giallo list of tropes,

1565
01:47:55,793 --> 01:47:58,034
and is sadism a good thing
in a giallo?

1566
01:47:58,137 --> 01:48:00,000
And if so,
who's the better sadist?

1567
01:48:00,103 --> 01:48:01,413
Bava or Argento?

1568
01:48:01,517 --> 01:48:04,172
So, Sam, you're up,
speaking for Team Argento.

1569
01:48:04,275 --> 01:48:06,551
-Well, I don't know if cynicism
and sadism are the same thing.

1570
01:48:06,655 --> 01:48:08,172
-Well it's not, no.

1571
01:48:08,275 --> 01:48:11,310
-I think they are cynical
in the way

1572
01:48:11,413 --> 01:48:12,931
that the societies
are functioning

1573
01:48:13,034 --> 01:48:13,896
within the movies themselves.

1574
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:15,827
In "Blood and Black Lace,"

1575
01:48:15,931 --> 01:48:17,344
No one's really friends,

1576
01:48:17,448 --> 01:48:18,827
and everyone's trying
to hide something.

1577
01:48:18,931 --> 01:48:20,551
So the second someone dies,
they think,

1578
01:48:20,655 --> 01:48:22,413
what is this going to reveal
about me?

1579
01:48:22,517 --> 01:48:24,413
So everyone's concerned about
themselves.

1580
01:48:24,517 --> 01:48:27,655
In Crystal Plumage, Sam Dalmas
is not trying to solve it

1581
01:48:27,758 --> 01:48:29,034
because he's out
for the good of his heart.

1582
01:48:29,137 --> 01:48:30,862
He's --
He has main character syndrome.

1583
01:48:30,965 --> 01:48:32,965
He's like
this is now about me.

1584
01:48:33,068 --> 01:48:34,586
I'm just obsessed with myself

1585
01:48:34,689 --> 01:48:36,896
and want to continue
trying to solve this case.

1586
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:40,586
Um, in in respect to sadism,

1587
01:48:40,689 --> 01:48:43,068
I think it's essential

1588
01:48:43,172 --> 01:48:45,517
because the -- the murders
have to hurt in order

1589
01:48:45,620 --> 01:48:48,931
to invest
us
in their cause,
and we have to feel the pain.

1590
01:48:49,034 --> 01:48:52,379
We have to feel scared
for the characters and we do.

1591
01:48:52,482 --> 01:48:54,793
I think both are something,
you know, it's hard.

1592
01:48:54,896 --> 01:48:57,758
I mean, I'm Team Argento,
but this stuff's got to hurt

1593
01:48:57,862 --> 01:48:59,896
and they both
do a great job of making it so.

1594
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:01,620
-They don't seem
to have families.

1595
01:49:01,724 --> 01:49:03,103
No one has families.

1596
01:49:03,206 --> 01:49:05,551
We're never concerned about
any of the model's siblings

1597
01:49:05,655 --> 01:49:07,965
or parents or...

1598
01:49:08,068 --> 01:49:11,137
-Okay, Lars, you're next
in line for rebuttal.

1599
01:49:11,241 --> 01:49:13,896
Is your guy more heartless
than the other guy?

1600
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:15,896
-Well, I think Bava's making --

1601
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:17,862
"Bird with the Crystal Plumage"
is more realistic

1602
01:49:17,965 --> 01:49:19,034
than "Blood and Black Lace"

1603
01:49:19,137 --> 01:49:21,689
"Blood and Black Lace"
is a diorama.

1604
01:49:21,793 --> 01:49:24,068
You know,
it's a pageant in a lot of ways.

1605
01:49:24,172 --> 01:49:28,103
It is, um, uh,
it's like a View-Master slide

1606
01:49:28,206 --> 01:49:29,689
where we're seeing this,
you know,

1607
01:49:29,793 --> 01:49:32,655
this very sort
of beautiful sort of 3D world.

1608
01:49:32,758 --> 01:49:35,310
And what Bava's really doing is
he's putting sex and violence

1609
01:49:35,413 --> 01:49:37,000
together in the same package.

1610
01:49:37,103 --> 01:49:38,965
Sex and violence in every shot.

1611
01:49:39,068 --> 01:49:43,034
So it's a bargain in a way
that, um, in a way that

1612
01:49:43,137 --> 01:49:45,103
"Bird with the Crystal Plumage"
is not so much a bargain

1613
01:49:45,206 --> 01:49:46,551
because in
"Bird with the Crystal Plumage,"

1614
01:49:46,655 --> 01:49:49,275
you get a little sex,
although not much sex, honestly,

1615
01:49:49,379 --> 01:49:50,724
uh, and then you get
a little violence,

1616
01:49:50,827 --> 01:49:53,000
and then maybe you get
a little hint of possible sex,

1617
01:49:53,103 --> 01:49:54,655
and then you get
a little violence.

1618
01:49:54,758 --> 01:49:56,551
Uh, Bava's really giving you
sex and violence

1619
01:49:56,655 --> 01:50:00,241
all nutritiously put together

1620
01:50:00,344 --> 01:50:04,241
in the same bite
every time, every single time.

1621
01:50:04,344 --> 01:50:06,137
And I think that's
really the key to --

1622
01:50:06,241 --> 01:50:08,034
to what we might call
sadism in this film.

1623
01:50:08,137 --> 01:50:10,689
Sex and violence
on the same fork.

1624
01:50:10,793 --> 01:50:12,793
-But you do get it
pretty explicitly in Plumage

1625
01:50:12,896 --> 01:50:14,413
when they're in bed together.

1626
01:50:14,517 --> 01:50:16,137
And his mind keeps
going to this.

1627
01:50:16,241 --> 01:50:17,896
And, you know,
at the end of that scene,

1628
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:19,310
they're smiling
and cuddling in bed

1629
01:50:19,413 --> 01:50:22,068
like it would seem as if
the memory got him going a bit.

1630
01:50:22,172 --> 01:50:24,482
So I think the relationship is
pretty clear.

1631
01:50:24,586 --> 01:50:27,310
-I get the impression between
Suzy Kendall and Tony Musante

1632
01:50:27,413 --> 01:50:30,068
that their --
that their sex is not working.

1633
01:50:30,172 --> 01:50:32,310
It's not very satisfactory.

1634
01:50:32,413 --> 01:50:34,206
I mean, certainly I don't feel
the chemistry between the two,

1635
01:50:34,310 --> 01:50:36,965
but also just get the feeling
that, like, they're not --

1636
01:50:37,068 --> 01:50:38,310
they're cuddling a little bit,

1637
01:50:38,413 --> 01:50:41,241
but he's not able to do the deed
because of his...

1638
01:50:41,344 --> 01:50:42,862
-He's got to solve this case.

1639
01:50:42,965 --> 01:50:46,000
-You've got to solve the case
before you can, you know.

1640
01:50:46,103 --> 01:50:48,620
-Yeah, I mean,
Musante is like both creatively

1641
01:50:48,724 --> 01:50:52,206
and sexually blocked
until he gets stimulated

1642
01:50:52,310 --> 01:50:54,413
by this horrific murder
of this woman

1643
01:50:54,517 --> 01:50:57,137
in this white catsuit
rolling around on the ground.

1644
01:50:57,241 --> 01:50:58,448
Um, the thing is that in --

1645
01:50:58,551 --> 01:51:01,379
in practically all Argento
movies,

1646
01:51:01,482 --> 01:51:04,034
sex is sort of like
this impossibility.

1647
01:51:04,137 --> 01:51:05,482
There's always this coldness.

1648
01:51:05,586 --> 01:51:06,827
Any of the ostensible couples

1649
01:51:06,931 --> 01:51:08,862
are always at each other's
throats,

1650
01:51:08,965 --> 01:51:13,034
or not quite connecting or sort
of running away from each other.

1651
01:51:13,137 --> 01:51:15,724
You know, like the
most intimate anybody ever is,

1652
01:51:15,827 --> 01:51:18,172
I think in any Argento movie
probably is in "Deep Red."

1653
01:51:18,275 --> 01:51:20,068
And we all know why it would be

1654
01:51:20,172 --> 01:51:23,068
that Daria Nicolodi
is the recipient of just like --

1655
01:51:23,172 --> 01:51:25,275
like just the meagerest amount
of warmth

1656
01:51:25,379 --> 01:51:27,862
finally gets squeezed
out of one of these movies,

1657
01:51:27,965 --> 01:51:30,896
but they're always fighting
each other.

1658
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:33,034
It's like a Tom and Jerry
relationship, almost.

1659
01:51:33,137 --> 01:51:36,379
And then, um, there's like one
scene where you kind of see that

1660
01:51:36,482 --> 01:51:39,241
they're putting their clothes
back on, but maybe.

1661
01:51:39,344 --> 01:51:40,827
Maybe not. Who really knows?

1662
01:51:40,931 --> 01:51:42,034
It's not very intimate,

1663
01:51:42,137 --> 01:51:43,793
but I think Argento's
world is a world

1664
01:51:43,896 --> 01:51:45,517
where love is
sort of impossible.

1665
01:51:45,620 --> 01:51:46,965
Intimacy is dangerous.

1666
01:51:47,068 --> 01:51:48,758
It may be hard
to even conceive of,

1667
01:51:48,862 --> 01:51:50,551
and the catharsis of violence

1668
01:51:50,655 --> 01:51:53,137
is so much more satisfying
and available.

1669
01:51:53,241 --> 01:51:55,103
-Well,
and that's the way with Argento.

1670
01:51:55,206 --> 01:51:57,551
"Opera" was kind of his movie
about AIDS in that sense,

1671
01:51:57,655 --> 01:51:59,034
because it came out
during the height

1672
01:51:59,137 --> 01:52:01,689
of the AIDS sort of epidemic,
it was going on.

1673
01:52:01,793 --> 01:52:03,344
-Are we grieving for anybody in
this movie?

1674
01:52:03,448 --> 01:52:06,551
-In this movie, honestly.
Not particularly.

1675
01:52:06,655 --> 01:52:09,689
I don't think -- I think
Bava has always been very much

1676
01:52:09,793 --> 01:52:12,551
a non-judgmental moralist
in the sense that

1677
01:52:12,655 --> 01:52:14,586
he's not interested in passing
judgment over the characters,

1678
01:52:14,689 --> 01:52:16,758
just likes to kind of set
them against each other

1679
01:52:16,862 --> 01:52:18,620
and see who --
who does what to whom.

1680
01:52:18,724 --> 01:52:20,448
-We're rooting
for the next kill

1681
01:52:20,551 --> 01:52:22,620
to be even better
than the previous kill.

1682
01:52:22,724 --> 01:52:25,655
-Okay, that's what I thought.
Which is cynical.

1683
01:52:25,758 --> 01:52:27,275
Alright. Alright.

1684
01:52:27,379 --> 01:52:28,827
And this time,
as I total up the points,

1685
01:52:28,931 --> 01:52:31,965
I'm going to add that
Lea Lander, who played Greta,

1686
01:52:32,068 --> 01:52:35,965
was also in Bava's
1974 film "Rabid Dogs,"

1687
01:52:36,068 --> 01:52:38,517
which was unfinished
at the time of Bava's death.

1688
01:52:38,620 --> 01:52:42,586
But she loved Bava so much that
she obtained the rights to it

1689
01:52:42,689 --> 01:52:45,793
and helped to score it
and edit it and get it released.

1690
01:52:45,896 --> 01:52:47,482
And she really pushed
Bava's son

1691
01:52:47,586 --> 01:52:49,586
Lamberto Bava
to help her with it.

1692
01:52:49,689 --> 01:52:53,310
And all the cuts
of "Rabid Dogs" that exist today

1693
01:52:53,413 --> 01:52:56,103
owe a debt to her efforts.

1694
01:52:56,206 --> 01:53:00,931
Alright, I'm going to say who
has the coldest characters

1695
01:53:01,034 --> 01:53:02,517
in these giallo films?

1696
01:53:02,620 --> 01:53:05,379
I'm going to say that
was another tie round.

1697
01:53:11,344 --> 01:53:14,344
So that's, uh,
that's going to be 50-50.

1698
01:53:14,448 --> 01:53:16,275
-That's a controversial call
right there.

1699
01:53:16,379 --> 01:53:17,758
-Huh?
-That's controversial.

1700
01:53:17,862 --> 01:53:18,965
-Is that a controversial call?

1701
01:53:19,068 --> 01:53:20,620
-Yeah.
Yeah, it is, it is, it is.

1702
01:53:20,724 --> 01:53:22,689
-I think they both
had very cold --

1703
01:53:22,793 --> 01:53:24,275
-No it's controversial.

1704
01:53:24,379 --> 01:53:25,517
- Okay.
- Take our word for it.

1705
01:53:25,620 --> 01:53:27,034
It's controversial.

1706
01:53:27,137 --> 01:53:29,000
-So in the movie
we're watching,

1707
01:53:29,103 --> 01:53:33,965
all the men are in jail and yet
another model gets killed.

1708
01:53:34,068 --> 01:53:36,068
So the puzzle gets more
and more complex,

1709
01:53:36,172 --> 01:53:38,482
which all good giallo
films should be.

1710
01:53:38,586 --> 01:53:40,724
Roll the flick.

1711
01:53:40,827 --> 01:53:43,241
One thing I do not like
about this movie

1712
01:53:43,344 --> 01:53:47,448
is that all the male voices are
dubbed by one guy, all of them.

1713
01:53:47,551 --> 01:53:51,241
And I mean, he's good.
He makes them different.

1714
01:53:51,344 --> 01:53:54,206
And he's a famous dubbing
artist, Paul Frees.

1715
01:53:54,310 --> 01:53:56,310
But, um,
wouldn't you like to hear

1716
01:53:56,413 --> 01:53:58,517
Cameron Mitchell's
real voice in this movie?

1717
01:53:58,620 --> 01:53:59,655
-Yeah, of course.
-Paul Frees.

1718
01:53:59,758 --> 01:54:01,551
I think he worked for Disney.

1719
01:54:01,655 --> 01:54:04,379
-Oh,
he didn't just work for Disney.

1720
01:54:04,482 --> 01:54:06,862
He's the voice of the
Haunted Mansion in Disneyland.

1721
01:54:06,965 --> 01:54:08,379
And --
-He's the Haunted Mansion?

1722
01:54:08,482 --> 01:54:11,413
-Yes, and he narrated
"Doctor Phibes Rises Again"

1723
01:54:11,517 --> 01:54:13,724
and "War of the Worlds."

1724
01:54:13,827 --> 01:54:15,655
-I know he did
Francis the talking mule.

1725
01:54:15,758 --> 01:54:17,724
-Yeah and Morocco Mole.

1726
01:54:17,827 --> 01:54:19,793
-Who's Morocco Mole?

1727
01:54:19,896 --> 01:54:21,482
I don't know Morocco Mole.

1728
01:54:21,586 --> 01:54:22,862
-Do you guys
really not know that?

1729
01:54:22,965 --> 01:54:25,310
He is the sidekick
of Secret Squirrel.

1730
01:54:26,551 --> 01:54:27,862
Obviously.
-Sorry.

1731
01:54:29,344 --> 01:54:32,275
-I know he's
the Pillsbury Doughboy also.

1732
01:54:32,379 --> 01:54:35,482
-And he narrated
"The Shaggy Dog."

1733
01:54:35,586 --> 01:54:36,862
-He was everywhere.
-Yes.

1734
01:54:36,965 --> 01:54:39,206
Maybe that's what made
him such a good narc.

1735
01:54:39,310 --> 01:54:40,344
He was also a narc.

1736
01:54:40,448 --> 01:54:41,517
-What? He was a narc?

1737
01:54:41,620 --> 01:54:45,206
-Yeah.
He died in 1986.

1738
01:54:45,310 --> 01:54:47,379
But it was revealed
later he was an undercover agent

1739
01:54:47,482 --> 01:54:49,724
for the Bureau of Narcotics
and Dangerous Drugs

1740
01:54:49,827 --> 01:54:51,379
throughout the 1960s.

1741
01:54:51,482 --> 01:54:53,448
-Wow, and that was a huge time
for drugs.

1742
01:54:53,551 --> 01:54:56,241
-And that was a huge time
for drugs in Hollywood, so.

1743
01:54:56,344 --> 01:54:57,827
-Morocco Mole
would not approve.

1744
01:55:22,172 --> 01:55:24,827
-Look at how the murderer
tortured her.

1745
01:55:24,931 --> 01:55:27,034
He must have used
a red-hot poker.

1746
01:55:27,137 --> 01:55:29,965
He must have been a madman.
-Or a sex maniac

1747
01:55:30,068 --> 01:55:33,379
and homicidal fury.
-Against beautiful women.

1748
01:55:33,482 --> 01:55:35,103
-Yes.

1749
01:55:35,206 --> 01:55:36,517
Perhaps the sight of beauty

1750
01:55:36,620 --> 01:55:40,344
makes him lose control
of himself and kill.

1751
01:55:40,448 --> 01:55:43,344
We'll have to start
all over again.

1752
01:55:43,448 --> 01:55:45,620
-Excuse me, sir, if you want
to see the footprints

1753
01:55:45,724 --> 01:55:47,896
we found in the garden,
we're ready now.

1754
01:55:58,068 --> 01:56:02,000
-Let's look at those footprints.
-The killer drove up to here.

1755
01:56:02,103 --> 01:56:04,206
The footprints show
that he started here,

1756
01:56:04,310 --> 01:56:07,241
got out, and walked up
the embankment to the farm.

1757
01:56:07,344 --> 01:56:10,482
They match the footprints
we found at Morlan's villa.

1758
01:56:10,586 --> 01:56:12,275
-Are you sure?
-Absolutely.

1759
01:56:12,379 --> 01:56:14,344
We have the proof
in the plaster cast.

1760
01:56:24,206 --> 01:56:26,310
-I could have sworn
that the murderer

1761
01:56:26,413 --> 01:56:29,068
was one of
the five suspects we have.

1762
01:56:29,172 --> 01:56:32,655
-Do we have to let them go?
-Of course.

1763
01:56:32,758 --> 01:56:35,620
This time they've got
a really foolproof alibi.

1764
01:56:37,448 --> 01:56:39,758
I gave it to them.

1765
01:56:39,862 --> 01:56:42,103
-Morell, Richard.
-That's me.

1766
01:56:42,206 --> 01:56:45,000
-You want to check it?
-Of course, I'll check it.

1767
01:56:49,827 --> 01:56:52,034
-Max Morlan.

1768
01:58:16,586 --> 01:58:19,586
-Yes? Come in.

1769
01:58:19,689 --> 01:58:22,965
-Mr. Morlan, I would like
to speak to you for a moment.

1770
01:58:23,068 --> 01:58:25,000
-Yes, darling. Come in.

1771
01:58:31,206 --> 01:58:33,896
-Mr. Morlan,
I'm a calm person.

1772
01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:35,310
I'm not nervous.

1773
01:58:35,413 --> 01:58:37,275
But the thought
that a sex maniac

1774
01:58:37,379 --> 01:58:39,689
is prowling around
your fashion house?

1775
01:58:39,793 --> 01:58:42,172
Well...I don't like it.

1776
01:58:42,275 --> 01:58:45,689
I'd like to take
a short holiday.

1777
01:58:45,793 --> 01:58:48,586
I have already booked a flight
to Paris for tomorrow.

1778
01:58:48,689 --> 01:58:52,655
-To Paris? Very well, Tilde.
-Thank you.

1779
01:58:52,758 --> 01:58:56,862
-By the way...uh, you still live
with the Countess?

1780
01:58:56,965 --> 01:58:59,000
-Yes. Why?
-Oh, nothing.

1781
01:58:59,103 --> 01:59:02,517
Except, uh, a short while ago,
while the count was alive,

1782
01:59:02,620 --> 01:59:04,344
I visited there frequently.

1783
01:59:04,448 --> 01:59:05,827
Lovely place.

1784
01:59:05,931 --> 01:59:09,379
You know, from the terrace
you can see all of Rome.

1785
01:59:09,482 --> 01:59:12,310
-Yes. I'd rather see the roofs
of Paris at the moment.

1786
01:59:12,413 --> 01:59:14,862
-I understand.
Have a nice time. Bye-bye.

1787
01:59:14,965 --> 01:59:16,413
-Goodbye.

1788
02:00:57,862 --> 02:00:59,896
-I burnt Peggy's clothes.

1789
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:03,275
There's nothing left to show
that she was here.

1790
02:01:03,379 --> 02:01:04,896
Then I had to do something else.

1791
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:10,413
I had to get her out of here
to give you an alibi.

1792
02:01:10,517 --> 02:01:13,034
And then I...killed Greta.

1793
02:01:13,137 --> 02:01:14,827
-Perfect.

1794
02:01:14,931 --> 02:01:17,793
-Perfectly awful.

1795
02:01:17,896 --> 02:01:20,551
I don't know how I did it.

1796
02:01:20,655 --> 02:01:25,137
As if it wasn't bad enough to
find Isabella in the wardrobe...

1797
02:01:25,241 --> 02:01:28,931
I nearly fainted.

1798
02:01:29,034 --> 02:01:32,068
-I wanted to tell you
about it, but I couldn't.

1799
02:01:32,172 --> 02:01:38,413
By the way, how did you manage
to carry Peggy to Morell's farm?

1800
02:01:38,517 --> 02:01:41,137
-Well, I -- I didn't.

1801
02:01:41,241 --> 02:01:45,413
I...
somehow got her into the car...

1802
02:01:45,517 --> 02:01:47,137
and Greta did the rest.

1803
02:01:47,241 --> 02:01:49,482
-Why did you pick on Greta?

1804
02:01:49,586 --> 02:01:51,172
-Well...

1805
02:01:51,275 --> 02:01:53,896
she was alone in the house,
that's why.

1806
02:01:56,241 --> 02:01:58,689
-Well done.

1807
02:01:58,793 --> 02:02:02,344
The police think
it's the work of a sex maniac.

1808
02:02:11,275 --> 02:02:15,103
-First. Second. Third. Fourth.

1809
02:02:15,206 --> 02:02:18,862
Stop it!

1810
02:02:18,965 --> 02:02:21,068
Oh!

1811
02:02:21,172 --> 02:02:23,000
Oh! Oh, darling.

1812
02:02:23,103 --> 02:02:26,068
Darling, what's the matter? Hmm?

1813
02:02:26,172 --> 02:02:27,758
Kiss me.

1814
02:02:39,275 --> 02:02:41,793
What's the matter, darling?

1815
02:02:41,896 --> 02:02:43,793
-What a mess.

1816
02:02:43,896 --> 02:02:48,517
All because of that idiot,
that witch Isabella...

1817
02:02:48,620 --> 02:02:52,137
the blackmail...
money she wanted.

1818
02:02:52,241 --> 02:02:54,862
-Money. Money.
Too much money.

1819
02:02:54,965 --> 02:02:59,413
She should have realized
when she found out about...

1820
02:02:59,517 --> 02:03:03,793
that my husband's death
wasn't an accident.

1821
02:03:03,896 --> 02:03:08,137
That it was dangerous and unwise
to ask for that money.

1822
02:03:08,241 --> 02:03:10,379
But no, no, no.

1823
02:03:10,482 --> 02:03:13,758
The more that we would give her
the more she wanted.

1824
02:03:16,275 --> 02:03:18,689
She asked for it. She did.

1825
02:03:18,793 --> 02:03:20,931
-She was on top of us.

1826
02:03:21,034 --> 02:03:23,344
Too hard, my darling.
She squeezed too hard.

1827
02:03:23,448 --> 02:03:26,931
-Mhm. And the diary.

1828
02:03:27,034 --> 02:03:29,724
That damn diary!

1829
02:03:29,827 --> 02:03:33,275
If it hadn't been
for that damn diary...

1830
02:03:36,241 --> 02:03:40,103
Ah, it is done now

1831
02:03:40,206 --> 02:03:43,551
and we have nothing
to worry about, my darling.

1832
02:03:43,655 --> 02:03:45,413
Nothing to worry about.

1833
02:03:45,517 --> 02:03:48,137
-No, you're wrong.
You're wrong!

1834
02:03:48,241 --> 02:03:50,620
We'll never have any peace...

1835
02:03:50,724 --> 02:03:54,034
until we've given
the police their murderer.

1836
02:03:54,137 --> 02:03:56,896
-Peace? Ha, ha, ha.

1837
02:03:57,000 --> 02:03:59,275
-Chris, listen to me.

1838
02:03:59,379 --> 02:04:01,517
We'll never get away with it

1839
02:04:01,620 --> 02:04:03,758
unless they find the maniac
they're looking for.

1840
02:04:03,862 --> 02:04:05,103
Never.

1841
02:04:05,206 --> 02:04:08,172
Until they do,
they'll keep their eye on us.

1842
02:04:08,275 --> 02:04:11,206
You must remember
all the victims worked for us.

1843
02:04:11,310 --> 02:04:14,310
But while they have
no evidence against us,

1844
02:04:14,413 --> 02:04:16,172
the whole thing
has blown sky high.

1845
02:04:16,275 --> 02:04:20,379
The press, the scandal,
the salon being closed down.

1846
02:04:20,482 --> 02:04:22,724
We've got to find a way out.

1847
02:04:25,137 --> 02:04:27,931
-What are we going to do?

1848
02:04:28,034 --> 02:04:29,172
Oh.

1849
02:04:29,275 --> 02:04:31,137
I know, darling.

1850
02:04:31,241 --> 02:04:34,000
We're going to fly to the moon.

1851
02:04:37,862 --> 02:04:40,931
-We've got to act again
one more time.

1852
02:04:41,034 --> 02:04:42,241
You've got to do it.

1853
02:04:46,862 --> 02:04:48,448
-Oh, no.
-Yes.

1854
02:04:48,551 --> 02:04:50,344
I'm still being shadowed.

1855
02:04:50,448 --> 02:04:53,896
Now don't worry, darling,
we'll find an alibi for you.

1856
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:55,862
Now don't worry.

1857
02:04:55,965 --> 02:04:57,551
-Oh, no, Max, no.

1858
02:04:57,655 --> 02:05:00,000
You can't ask me to do
a thing like that.

1859
02:05:00,103 --> 02:05:02,137
I can't do it.
I can't do it, you know!

1860
02:05:02,241 --> 02:05:04,896
-You've done it before.

1861
02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:06,793
-I've done it before.

1862
02:05:06,896 --> 02:05:09,517
I've done it before, but
that was different, you know?

1863
02:05:09,620 --> 02:05:12,379
Because you were in danger,
I had to do it...

1864
02:05:12,482 --> 02:05:15,275
do it because unless
I hadn't done it,

1865
02:05:15,379 --> 02:05:18,448
everything would have
been lost forever.

1866
02:05:18,551 --> 02:05:24,068
Oh, only my love for you
gave me the strength.

1867
02:05:24,172 --> 02:05:26,206
But it was horrible.

1868
02:05:26,310 --> 02:05:28,862
Horrible!

1869
02:05:33,689 --> 02:05:36,827
-Listen to me, you little idiot.

1870
02:05:36,931 --> 02:05:38,310
Listen.

1871
02:05:38,413 --> 02:05:41,586
There's more danger now
than even before.

1872
02:05:41,689 --> 02:05:44,275
More!

1873
02:05:44,379 --> 02:05:47,655
If you don't listen to me,
everything...

1874
02:05:47,758 --> 02:05:50,068
this horrible nightmare...

1875
02:05:50,172 --> 02:05:51,586
everything...

1876
02:05:51,689 --> 02:05:52,758
useless.

1877
02:05:52,862 --> 02:05:53,862
Useless!

1878
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:14,482
-Wow.

1879
02:06:14,586 --> 02:06:16,344
You know, when you're watching
the movie for the first time,

1880
02:06:16,448 --> 02:06:20,000
this would seem
to be the reveal, the climax.

1881
02:06:20,103 --> 02:06:23,655
But Marcello Fondato, the writer
is not content with that,

1882
02:06:23,758 --> 02:06:25,793
so he's going to twist
it some more.

1883
02:06:25,896 --> 02:06:28,379
Fondato had already written
"Black Sabbath"

1884
02:06:28,482 --> 02:06:30,586
for Mario Bava in 1963.

1885
02:06:30,689 --> 02:06:32,586
He was a heavyweight
in all genres.

1886
02:06:32,689 --> 02:06:34,862
He would later go on
to his own directing career,

1887
02:06:34,965 --> 02:06:36,862
mostly doing comedies,

1888
02:06:36,965 --> 02:06:39,172
but he was considered one
of the top craftsmen in Rome

1889
02:06:39,275 --> 02:06:40,827
when it came to scenarios.

1890
02:06:40,931 --> 02:06:42,620
He really didn't get much credit
because Bava

1891
02:06:42,724 --> 02:06:45,655
was more a painter
than a storyteller,

1892
02:06:45,758 --> 02:06:47,724
and so the plotting gets
short shrift.

1893
02:06:47,827 --> 02:06:50,241
So this will be
the last round

1894
02:06:50,344 --> 02:06:52,655
of the
Battle for the Black Glove.

1895
02:06:52,758 --> 02:06:57,000
Prior to the real conclusion
of "Blood and Black Lace,"

1896
02:06:57,103 --> 02:06:58,655
and I want to make sure that
we've covered everything.

1897
02:06:58,758 --> 02:07:01,413
Have we talked about how Bava

1898
02:07:01,517 --> 02:07:04,931
is in love with the zoom
and the slow pan.

1899
02:07:05,034 --> 02:07:07,827
I don't think we have, and how
he couldn't afford a dolly,

1900
02:07:07,931 --> 02:07:10,482
so he mounted a camera
on a child's wagon.

1901
02:07:10,586 --> 02:07:13,689
Um, we did the gloved killer,

1902
02:07:13,793 --> 02:07:16,310
the somber
but ineffective detective,

1903
02:07:16,413 --> 02:07:18,241
all the dead women
in fancy bras,

1904
02:07:18,344 --> 02:07:21,241
the fashion house
disguising aristocratic decay,

1905
02:07:21,344 --> 02:07:24,103
the jazz score,
the ruination of beauty.

1906
02:07:24,206 --> 02:07:28,793
So let's talk about motives
for murder.

1907
02:07:28,896 --> 02:07:32,862
We now have two killers,
and they both have motives.

1908
02:07:32,965 --> 02:07:37,482
How important is the murder
motive for Bava or for Argento

1909
02:07:37,586 --> 02:07:41,172
when they set out to do their
beautiful set pieces of death?

1910
02:07:41,275 --> 02:07:43,689
And you're up, Lars,
representing Team Bava.

1911
02:07:43,793 --> 02:07:46,068
-I think for Bava it's so
important that he actually

1912
02:07:46,172 --> 02:07:49,137
does have motives
that are based on real things.

1913
02:07:49,241 --> 02:07:52,103
Sex, money, pride, status,

1914
02:07:52,206 --> 02:07:55,241
these are -- these are
real reasons people kill.

1915
02:07:55,344 --> 02:07:57,413
I think in a lot
of Argento movies,

1916
02:07:57,517 --> 02:07:58,896
what you end up with
are motives

1917
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:01,620
that are sort of based
on a dilettantish

1918
02:08:01,724 --> 02:08:04,517
sort of understanding
of psychoanalysis.

1919
02:08:04,620 --> 02:08:06,827
Very much kind of, uh,

1920
02:08:06,931 --> 02:08:08,862
the kind of person
who would read, like,

1921
02:08:08,965 --> 02:08:11,448
an article in
The New Yorker

or something and say like,

1922
02:08:11,551 --> 02:08:14,275
"Well, people probably kill
for this reason."

1923
02:08:14,379 --> 02:08:16,344
Whereas I think what
we have Bava doing

1924
02:08:16,448 --> 02:08:18,482
is taking it down to,
again, Sam, if you don't mind,

1925
02:08:18,586 --> 02:08:20,655
street level,
as you said earlier.

1926
02:08:20,758 --> 02:08:25,379
Uh, is that Bava is really
concentrating on the elemental,

1927
02:08:25,482 --> 02:08:29,206
uh, things that make us kill
and in fact, make us live.

1928
02:08:29,310 --> 02:08:33,275
Uh, and Argento is
kind of locked in his world

1929
02:08:33,379 --> 02:08:36,586
of being kind of,
Oh, let's be sort of tourists

1930
02:08:36,689 --> 02:08:39,655
through what we think
of as the deep recesses

1931
02:08:39,758 --> 02:08:41,413
of the psychoanalytical mind,

1932
02:08:41,517 --> 02:08:45,000
as we understand it, based on a
few, uh,
Life
magazine articles.

1933
02:08:45,103 --> 02:08:49,137
-Okay. And, Sam, it's your turn
to represent Team Argento.

1934
02:08:49,241 --> 02:08:51,068
-Well, I think you got
these Bava banana heads,

1935
02:08:51,172 --> 02:08:53,413
and they say something
like "elemental."

1936
02:08:53,517 --> 02:08:55,103
And what they really
mean is old hat.

1937
02:08:55,206 --> 02:08:56,758
-Name calling, wow.
-They're stuck in the classical.

1938
02:08:56,862 --> 02:08:58,000
They're stuck
in the old fashioned.

1939
02:08:58,103 --> 02:08:59,689
We're talking greed
and fidelity, betrayal.

1940
02:08:59,793 --> 02:09:01,379
And we've seen
a million stories like that.

1941
02:09:01,482 --> 02:09:03,275
And Argento likes to play
around in our traumas

1942
02:09:03,379 --> 02:09:05,827
and our kinks
and our psychology.

1943
02:09:05,931 --> 02:09:08,068
And maybe it's
a little surface level,

1944
02:09:08,172 --> 02:09:11,103
but it provides a lot more
interesting motive than just,

1945
02:09:11,206 --> 02:09:13,655
uh, "Ooh,
I hope I get my wife's money."

1946
02:09:16,793 --> 02:09:21,172
-Alright, now everyone can join
in on motive.

1947
02:09:21,275 --> 02:09:22,551
-I mean,
if you believe bullshit,

1948
02:09:22,655 --> 02:09:24,068
then that sounds really good,
but I --

1949
02:09:24,172 --> 02:09:26,068
I don't agree with that at all.

1950
02:09:26,172 --> 02:09:27,793
-I think,
as Lars was saying, you know,

1951
02:09:27,896 --> 02:09:29,758
we're getting into
the real sort of nitty gritty

1952
02:09:29,862 --> 02:09:31,068
of the -- of the human psyche,

1953
02:09:31,172 --> 02:09:32,620
the things
that really motivate us.

1954
02:09:32,724 --> 02:09:35,137
-But when in doubt, by all means
throw the word trauma around.

1955
02:09:35,241 --> 02:09:37,034
-Well, trauma,
I mean, it sounds nice.

1956
02:09:37,137 --> 02:09:39,103
It sounds very artsy
and sounds very, you know,

1957
02:09:39,206 --> 02:09:41,034
sort of upper crust.

1958
02:09:41,137 --> 02:09:45,137
Um, but no, I think ultimately
breaking it down to money, sex,

1959
02:09:45,241 --> 02:09:47,724
you know,
desire for status and wealth,

1960
02:09:47,827 --> 02:09:51,068
those are things that actually
they have a lot more currency,

1961
02:09:51,172 --> 02:09:53,586
I think, as opposed
to this kind of pop psychology.

1962
02:09:53,689 --> 02:09:55,896
If you like your Freud, that's
fine, but, you know, whatever.

1963
02:09:56,000 --> 02:09:59,068
-It just, uh, it has a short
shelf life is the problem,

1964
02:09:59,172 --> 02:10:01,482
is this kind of
pop psychology stuff.

1965
02:10:01,586 --> 02:10:02,827
There's going to be
different understandings

1966
02:10:02,931 --> 02:10:04,793
about these psychological
dynamics,

1967
02:10:04,896 --> 02:10:10,206
but it's a constant pride,
sex, money, status.

1968
02:10:10,310 --> 02:10:12,068
These are the kinds of things
that Bava's working in.

1969
02:10:12,172 --> 02:10:15,965
And that's why his work as
a serious artist, uh, will be --

1970
02:10:16,068 --> 02:10:19,448
will go down to the wire
100 years from now.

1971
02:10:19,551 --> 02:10:20,896
100 years from now,

1972
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:22,310
people will still be
watching Bava films

1973
02:10:22,413 --> 02:10:24,034
while Argento is just forgotten.

1974
02:10:24,137 --> 02:10:25,620
-I mean, I think
it's interesting that you called

1975
02:10:25,724 --> 02:10:28,517
setting the tone
for the next decade of giallo

1976
02:10:28,620 --> 02:10:30,103
a short shelf life.

1977
02:10:30,206 --> 02:10:32,862
-Yeah, and speaking
of dilettantish understandings,

1978
02:10:32,965 --> 02:10:35,517
since when is the giallo
a slice-of-life drama

1979
02:10:35,620 --> 02:10:36,896
It's not supposed to be
realistic.

1980
02:10:37,000 --> 02:10:38,931
We're not doing "Serpico" here.

1981
02:10:39,034 --> 02:10:42,275
It's abstract. It is arty.
It comes from the gut.

1982
02:10:42,379 --> 02:10:46,379
It's like an abstract expression
of this kind of cultural rage

1983
02:10:46,482 --> 02:10:48,172
that was a product
of that exact time.

1984
02:10:48,275 --> 02:10:50,620
It certainly --

1985
02:10:50,724 --> 02:10:52,827
I think if you told anyone

1986
02:10:52,931 --> 02:10:54,827
that you were trying
to associate realism

1987
02:10:54,931 --> 02:10:56,172
with the giallo subgenre,

1988
02:10:56,275 --> 02:10:57,896
you'd be laughed
out of the room.

1989
02:10:58,000 --> 02:11:00,482
-Well, we are discussing
the deeply realistic

1990
02:11:00,586 --> 02:11:02,758
"Blood and Black Lace"
right now.

1991
02:11:02,862 --> 02:11:07,482
So, I mean, I'm not trying
to say that realism is the key,

1992
02:11:07,586 --> 02:11:09,862
but I am saying
that actual motivations,

1993
02:11:09,965 --> 02:11:15,413
even in a stylistic
and a highly stylized setting

1994
02:11:15,517 --> 02:11:17,827
are still important.

1995
02:11:17,931 --> 02:11:19,793
It's important
for us to kind of understand

1996
02:11:19,896 --> 02:11:21,931
these motivations even
when we are watching something

1997
02:11:22,034 --> 02:11:23,448
that's this deeply stylized.

1998
02:11:23,551 --> 02:11:24,862
And I have agreed.

1999
02:11:24,965 --> 02:11:26,551
I think that
"Bird with the Crystal Plumage"

2000
02:11:26,655 --> 02:11:27,793
feels more realistic.

2001
02:11:27,896 --> 02:11:29,586
It's more mundane.

2002
02:11:29,689 --> 02:11:31,310
You know, it's more
of the kinds of things

2003
02:11:31,413 --> 02:11:33,310
that actually happen to us
in real life.

2004
02:11:33,413 --> 02:11:34,724
But who wants to go to
the movies

2005
02:11:34,827 --> 02:11:35,862
and pay to see something like.

2006
02:11:35,965 --> 02:11:37,517
-I can look out the window.
I too --

2007
02:11:37,620 --> 02:11:38,586
-You look out the window
and have witnessed

2008
02:11:38,689 --> 02:11:39,931
a murder in an art gallery?

2009
02:11:40,034 --> 02:11:41,275
Yeah, I think we all --

2010
02:11:41,379 --> 02:11:42,724
At this point,
I think we all have.

2011
02:11:42,827 --> 02:11:44,172
-Several, in fact.

2012
02:11:44,275 --> 02:11:46,931
-I thought that the giallo was
all about abstraction

2013
02:11:47,034 --> 02:11:49,586
and absurdity and perversity

2014
02:11:49,689 --> 02:11:51,620
and something that,
like, comes from the imagination

2015
02:11:51,724 --> 02:11:53,896
and shocks you
and surprises you.

2016
02:11:54,000 --> 02:11:57,034
I feel uncomfortable
with this thing

2017
02:11:57,137 --> 02:11:58,862
that Ernesto Gastaldi says,

2018
02:11:58,965 --> 02:12:00,827
you know all respect to him,

2019
02:12:00,931 --> 02:12:03,310
that the giallo is supposed
to have this airtight,

2020
02:12:03,413 --> 02:12:04,827
believable conclusion.

2021
02:12:04,931 --> 02:12:07,586
This is the opposite of what
practically every giallo fan

2022
02:12:07,689 --> 02:12:09,827
I've ever talked to has said.

2023
02:12:09,931 --> 02:12:11,103
I understand, you know,

2024
02:12:11,206 --> 02:12:13,793
he's coming from
this background.

2025
02:12:13,896 --> 02:12:15,517
He's an Italian.

2026
02:12:15,620 --> 02:12:17,689
He's connected to
that literary tradition.

2027
02:12:17,793 --> 02:12:20,862
But I think
that for most modern viewers,

2028
02:12:20,965 --> 02:12:23,448
the giallo is
neither airtight nor realistic.

2029
02:12:23,551 --> 02:12:24,758
-You don't care --
-I don't think it should be.

2030
02:12:24,862 --> 02:12:26,344
-You don't care about
the puzzle.

2031
02:12:26,448 --> 02:12:28,310
You don't care
if the puzzle makes sense.

2032
02:12:28,413 --> 02:12:29,862
-It can be puzzling.

2033
02:12:29,965 --> 02:12:31,827
But I don't think
it should make as much sense as,

2034
02:12:31,931 --> 02:12:34,344
like, a Agatha Christie
drawing room mystery.

2035
02:12:34,448 --> 02:12:35,827
-No.
-But it should be a machine.

2036
02:12:35,931 --> 02:12:39,793
Fulci called giallo plots
mechanical, and it is a machine.

2037
02:12:39,896 --> 02:12:42,206
And if the machine
just kind of just sort of spins

2038
02:12:42,310 --> 02:12:44,137
out at the end
and just sort of peters out,

2039
02:12:44,241 --> 02:12:47,000
that's a really unsatisfying
suspense machine.

2040
02:12:47,103 --> 02:12:49,586
Whereas if it actually
does sort of lock up,

2041
02:12:49,689 --> 02:12:51,482
the motivations make sense.

2042
02:12:51,586 --> 02:12:53,275
The -- The --
Actually the plot in this,

2043
02:12:53,379 --> 02:12:56,413
if you look at it, you talk
about sex, money, status,

2044
02:12:56,517 --> 02:12:58,206
all of these things lock in

2045
02:12:58,310 --> 02:13:01,034
when we find out
the the killing situation.

2046
02:13:01,137 --> 02:13:02,448
-But that doesn't make it
giallo .

2047
02:13:02,551 --> 02:13:03,655
-"Money, Cash, Hoes,"
as the song goes.

2048
02:13:03,758 --> 02:13:05,448
-I'm sorry.
-A lot of different genres

2049
02:13:05,551 --> 02:13:06,931
have that sort of,

2050
02:13:07,034 --> 02:13:08,586
"Oh, the pieces should fit
together."

2051
02:13:08,689 --> 02:13:10,310
-Yeah.
-What makes it a giallo ,

2052
02:13:10,413 --> 02:13:13,034
I think if the motivations are
too mundane,

2053
02:13:13,137 --> 02:13:16,551
it risks staying in the realm of
traditional detective fiction.

2054
02:13:16,655 --> 02:13:18,172
And if they're
not perverse enough,

2055
02:13:18,275 --> 02:13:20,275
it becomes like
a regular slasher movie.

2056
02:13:20,379 --> 02:13:22,551
-Look, not every giallo
can be as airtight

2057
02:13:22,655 --> 02:13:24,655
and logical
as Umberto Lenzi's "Eyeball."

2058
02:13:24,758 --> 02:13:26,310
I think we can agree with that.
-And I don't want them to be.

2059
02:13:26,413 --> 02:13:27,689
I don't think
that they should be.

2060
02:13:27,793 --> 02:13:30,137
-The masterpiece of realism
in that particular case.

2061
02:13:30,241 --> 02:13:32,000
The motivation is perfect.

2062
02:13:32,103 --> 02:13:35,068
-So you prefer
quirky people with psychoses?

2063
02:13:35,172 --> 02:13:38,137
-I think that's what's
associated with the subgenre.

2064
02:13:38,241 --> 02:13:40,862
I do prefer it personally,
but I also think that

2065
02:13:40,965 --> 02:13:42,896
that's what the giallo sort of
means to most people.

2066
02:13:43,000 --> 02:13:44,344
-That's what it's about.

2067
02:13:44,448 --> 02:13:47,103
-I think seeing my own attack
depicted in a painting

2068
02:13:47,206 --> 02:13:49,413
setting me off into
a brain-breaking killing spree,

2069
02:13:49,517 --> 02:13:51,551
it's just much more fun.

2070
02:13:51,655 --> 02:13:53,689
-You have a very strange
idea of fun.

2071
02:13:53,793 --> 02:13:55,551
-Alright.
-That's for damn sure.

2072
02:13:55,655 --> 02:13:58,827
-And we're also talking about
the difference between modern --

2073
02:13:58,931 --> 02:14:02,931
modern society
and 1963 society, aren't we?

2074
02:14:03,034 --> 02:14:06,000
But I'm going to do
the totals now and point out

2075
02:14:06,103 --> 02:14:08,310
that "Blood and Black Lace"

2076
02:14:08,413 --> 02:14:11,413
was a box office bomb
when it came out.

2077
02:14:11,517 --> 02:14:15,517
It was not even
in the top 100 films for Italy

2078
02:14:15,620 --> 02:14:20,482
in the year 1964,
made less than $200,000.

2079
02:14:20,586 --> 02:14:24,379
But man,
that was, uh...

2080
02:14:24,482 --> 02:14:28,172
I think the two teams in this,
in this discussion,

2081
02:14:28,275 --> 02:14:30,275
were talking
about two different things.

2082
02:14:30,379 --> 02:14:33,896
-Um, I think what was right
for Bava

2083
02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:35,551
may have not been right
for Argento

2084
02:14:35,655 --> 02:14:38,551
because of the time difference,
because of the six year,

2085
02:14:38,655 --> 02:14:40,758
the six-year change
in the culture.

2086
02:14:40,862 --> 02:14:43,413
So I'm going to call that a tie,
I think.

2087
02:14:43,517 --> 02:14:44,758
-Oh, come now!
-No.

2088
02:14:44,862 --> 02:14:47,103
Well, I tend to --
I tend to side with Argento,

2089
02:14:47,206 --> 02:14:48,620
to tell you the truth,

2090
02:14:48,724 --> 02:14:52,413
on it being a more interesting
way to account for murder,

2091
02:14:52,517 --> 02:14:55,206
uh, and a more, you know,
more cinematic way

2092
02:14:55,310 --> 02:14:57,241
for it to count for murder.

2093
02:14:57,344 --> 02:15:02,517
Um, but I think that, um,

2094
02:15:02,620 --> 02:15:07,172
Bava didn't live in a time
where it was --

2095
02:15:07,275 --> 02:15:10,000
Um, I mean,
we had not been through

2096
02:15:10,103 --> 02:15:12,724
the '60s hippie revolution
at the --

2097
02:15:12,827 --> 02:15:14,896
at the time
of Bava doing that movie.

2098
02:15:15,000 --> 02:15:17,310
So I'm sorry.
I'm going to call it a tie.

2099
02:15:22,931 --> 02:15:26,241
So it's 55-55,
but we still have one more.

2100
02:15:26,344 --> 02:15:27,655
-Do we still get paid?

2101
02:15:27,758 --> 02:15:30,586
-No.
-What?!

2102
02:15:30,689 --> 02:15:33,862
-But now --
Now we go to the true reveal.

2103
02:15:33,965 --> 02:15:37,103
And, um, it starts with what
was considered

2104
02:15:37,206 --> 02:15:39,310
the most shocking image
in the whole movie.

2105
02:15:39,413 --> 02:15:42,517
So roll it.

2106
02:15:42,620 --> 02:15:45,793
Ubaldo,
Ubaldo Terzano.

2107
02:15:45,896 --> 02:15:47,241
-Bless you.
-Did these beautiful...

2108
02:15:48,586 --> 02:15:50,655
-What?
What happened?

2109
02:15:50,758 --> 02:15:52,275
-He got a joke in there.
-He did?

2110
02:15:52,379 --> 02:15:53,551
-Who did?
-Don't worry about it.

2111
02:15:53,655 --> 02:15:55,103
-Alright.

2112
02:15:55,206 --> 02:15:57,931
Ubaldo Terzano did
these beautiful death images.

2113
02:15:58,034 --> 02:15:59,206
He was the cinematographer,

2114
02:15:59,310 --> 02:16:00,793
but he went to his grave

2115
02:16:00,896 --> 02:16:02,689
refusing to talk about
this movie.

2116
02:16:02,793 --> 02:16:06,724
Apparently, he and Bava
had a falling out over something

2117
02:16:06,827 --> 02:16:08,275
while they were making
this movie.

2118
02:16:08,379 --> 02:16:11,620
This would have been the fourth
movie that Terzano worked on,

2119
02:16:11,724 --> 02:16:13,965
but it would be the last one
that he worked on.

2120
02:16:15,344 --> 02:16:16,965
-It's sad actually.

2121
02:16:17,068 --> 02:16:19,827
-It's always sad
when geniuses can't get along.

2122
02:16:19,931 --> 02:16:23,448
-I know.
Is Terzano a genius?

2123
02:16:23,551 --> 02:16:27,517
-Well, I would say the colors,
the richness of the images,

2124
02:16:27,620 --> 02:16:30,862
and for a lot of the movie,
the camera is the killer.

2125
02:16:30,965 --> 02:16:35,206
So, yeah, Ubaldo Terzano
was a character in the movie.

2126
02:16:35,310 --> 02:16:36,827
-True.

2127
02:16:36,931 --> 02:16:41,965
-Oddly enough, Bava was known
for having non-screaming sets

2128
02:16:42,068 --> 02:16:45,241
because apparently most
Italian movie sets feature

2129
02:16:45,344 --> 02:16:50,137
frequent screaming episodes of
people screaming at each other.

2130
02:16:50,241 --> 02:16:52,310
-You don't mean
the death screams?

2131
02:16:52,413 --> 02:16:54,482
-No, I just mean
people screaming at each other.

2132
02:16:54,586 --> 02:16:58,103
Not in the movie, but apparently
Bava didn't like screaming.

2133
02:16:58,206 --> 02:16:59,689
-That was very unItalian of him.

2134
02:16:59,793 --> 02:17:01,517
-Maybe Ubaldo was a screamer.

2135
02:17:01,620 --> 02:17:05,103
Maybe that's what happened.
You know, who knows?

2136
02:26:02,448 --> 02:26:05,689
Are you -- Are you
surprised to...

2137
02:26:05,793 --> 02:26:08,896
see me alive, Max, my love?

2138
02:26:09,000 --> 02:26:10,379
Sure.

2139
02:26:10,482 --> 02:26:12,896
Your plan was ingenious.

2140
02:26:22,000 --> 02:26:25,724
The shop awning...

2141
02:26:25,827 --> 02:26:28,206
broke my fall.

2142
02:26:28,310 --> 02:26:29,724
-Please...

2143
02:26:29,827 --> 02:26:32,517
-Silence!

2144
02:26:32,620 --> 02:26:35,206
I know what you plan to say,

2145
02:26:35,310 --> 02:26:36,793
that you didn't do it,

2146
02:26:36,896 --> 02:26:38,172
but I know you did.

2147
02:26:38,275 --> 02:26:41,206
I know you did, because you knew
that I would be passing

2148
02:26:41,310 --> 02:26:43,827
by the ledge...
if there was any danger.

2149
02:26:43,931 --> 02:26:46,620
Remember?
Remember you told me to?

2150
02:26:46,724 --> 02:26:48,689
You told me to.

2151
02:26:51,206 --> 02:26:54,586
-Oh, please, you must listen
to me. You must listen.

2152
02:26:56,689 --> 02:26:59,068
-Huh? Yes, yes.

2153
02:26:59,172 --> 02:27:02,000
You had an ingenious plan.

2154
02:27:02,103 --> 02:27:04,275
If the police found my body,

2155
02:27:04,379 --> 02:27:05,931
everything would have
been solved.

2156
02:27:06,034 --> 02:27:10,034
Everything.
And you would have been free.

2157
02:27:10,137 --> 02:27:14,689
Now I understand why we had
to get married in secret...

2158
02:27:14,793 --> 02:27:16,448
in such a hurry.

2159
02:27:16,551 --> 02:27:18,931
You are so much in love.

2160
02:27:19,034 --> 02:27:23,931
So much in love,
yes, but with my house,

2161
02:27:24,034 --> 02:27:27,344
the apartment,
the salon, the money.

2162
02:27:27,448 --> 02:27:30,137
You loved everything I had.

2163
02:27:30,241 --> 02:27:31,724
Everything...

2164
02:27:36,931 --> 02:27:39,724
...but me.
-Chris, listen to me.

2165
02:27:39,827 --> 02:27:41,862
You're wrong, my darling.

2166
02:27:41,965 --> 02:27:43,310
I want you.

2167
02:27:45,172 --> 02:27:46,586
I love you.

2168
02:27:48,448 --> 02:27:51,206
It's been a terrible shock
for you, my darling.

2169
02:27:51,310 --> 02:27:54,137
It's terrible.

2170
02:27:54,241 --> 02:27:57,827
Christina, I love you.

2171
02:27:57,931 --> 02:28:01,068
To you, it was an accident.
Trust me.

2172
02:28:01,172 --> 02:28:06,482
Very soon, my darling...
we'll go away together.

2173
02:28:06,586 --> 02:28:09,689
Just the two of us,
like we always planned.

2174
02:29:25,620 --> 02:29:27,724
Uh...

2175
02:29:27,827 --> 02:29:30,517
please...

2176
02:29:30,620 --> 02:29:32,655
I want...

2177
02:29:32,758 --> 02:29:36,206
I want Inspector...Sylvester.

2178
02:31:06,172 --> 02:31:11,482
- Argento! Argento!
- Bava! Baba!

2179
02:31:11,586 --> 02:31:13,344
Agento! Let's go!

2180
02:31:13,448 --> 02:31:15,241
-I'm hearing more Bava.
-Argento!

2181
02:31:15,344 --> 02:31:16,827
-I'm hearing more Bava
than Argento.

2182
02:31:16,931 --> 02:31:20,206
-Bava, Bava!
-Okay. Alright.

2183
02:31:20,310 --> 02:31:21,896
-It's just easier to chant Bava.
-Oh, man, the crew --

2184
02:31:22,000 --> 02:31:23,551
The crew is in a frenzy.

2185
02:31:23,655 --> 02:31:25,758
-Great final sequence, though.

2186
02:31:25,862 --> 02:31:28,379
I mean, first,
the most cynical kill,

2187
02:31:28,482 --> 02:31:30,379
then the drowning
in the bathtub.

2188
02:31:30,482 --> 02:31:32,103
Then she's terrified by him.

2189
02:31:32,206 --> 02:31:34,034
Then he's terrified by her.

2190
02:31:34,137 --> 02:31:35,689
Then they trade words of love,

2191
02:31:35,793 --> 02:31:37,793
knowing that each one
wants to kill the other.

2192
02:31:37,896 --> 02:31:40,275
Then the gunshots,
then the death of him,

2193
02:31:40,379 --> 02:31:42,724
then the death of her
on top of him,

2194
02:31:42,827 --> 02:31:45,793
and then the dangling
red telephone shot

2195
02:31:45,896 --> 02:31:47,517
that ends the movie.

2196
02:31:47,620 --> 02:31:50,310
And as we wind up
the Battle for the Black Glove,

2197
02:31:50,413 --> 02:31:52,517
I would like to make it a rule

2198
02:31:52,620 --> 02:31:55,482
that in your final comments
on the film,

2199
02:31:55,586 --> 02:31:57,896
each person must say
why you think Bava ended

2200
02:31:58,000 --> 02:31:59,931
with the dangling red telephone.

2201
02:32:00,034 --> 02:32:02,896
A lot has been written about
the dangling red telephone.

2202
02:32:03,000 --> 02:32:06,137
Bava was asked about it and
he said he didn't remember it.

2203
02:32:06,241 --> 02:32:07,448
He didn't remember doing it.

2204
02:32:07,551 --> 02:32:10,965
So we're about to decide once
and for all

2205
02:32:11,068 --> 02:32:14,517
what the foundation film
of the giallo genre is.

2206
02:32:14,620 --> 02:32:18,137
And to make it fair, we're going
to give a full minute each.

2207
02:32:18,241 --> 02:32:19,758
Starting with you, Claire,
you're next.

2208
02:32:19,862 --> 02:32:22,000
Why is Argento
the founder of giallo?

2209
02:32:22,103 --> 02:32:24,482
And what's the meaning
of the dangling red telephone?

2210
02:32:24,586 --> 02:32:26,448
-Uh, I'm going to answer
that in reverse order.

2211
02:32:26,551 --> 02:32:28,000
-Okay.

2212
02:32:28,103 --> 02:32:31,448
-And I'm heavily riffing,
but I think it's worth noting

2213
02:32:31,551 --> 02:32:34,862
that in fascist era
Italian cinema,

2214
02:32:34,965 --> 02:32:36,896
there were these things called
the white telephone movies,

2215
02:32:37,000 --> 02:32:38,965
which were like these
really buttoned up,

2216
02:32:39,068 --> 02:32:42,724
tidy, hygienic, kind of
upstairs, downstairs movies.

2217
02:32:42,827 --> 02:32:44,758
And Argento later would riff
on this,

2218
02:32:44,862 --> 02:32:47,689
actually with, um, oh my God,
I'm forgetting her name.

2219
02:32:47,793 --> 02:32:49,275
But that's because
I'm an Argento person,

2220
02:32:49,379 --> 02:32:51,413
and actors are
like furniture and cattle to me.

2221
02:32:51,517 --> 02:32:54,137
But in "Deep Red,"
there's all this telephone stuff

2222
02:32:54,241 --> 02:32:56,413
with this tremendous
older actress,

2223
02:32:56,517 --> 02:32:58,827
and it's sort of like, um,
like this weird,

2224
02:32:58,931 --> 02:33:01,689
ironic juxtaposition between
the white telephone movies,

2225
02:33:01,793 --> 02:33:04,137
which are part
of Italian cinematic heritage,

2226
02:33:04,241 --> 02:33:09,344
and something like "Deep Red,"
which is like the new, right?

2227
02:33:09,448 --> 02:33:12,379
And so I think that's kind of
what's happening at the end of,

2228
02:33:12,482 --> 02:33:14,310
um, "Blood and Black Lace,"

2229
02:33:14,413 --> 02:33:17,724
you've got
this scarlet telephone dangling

2230
02:33:17,827 --> 02:33:19,931
in the midst
of carnage and despair,

2231
02:33:20,034 --> 02:33:23,896
and it sort of announces
the new era of the giallo,

2232
02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:28,758
which I think is really defined
by Argento's movie making.

2233
02:33:35,103 --> 02:33:36,758
I'm sorry. They made me.

2234
02:33:39,310 --> 02:33:40,689
-I forgive you.

2235
02:33:40,793 --> 02:33:42,689
-That was a lame whistle.
Okay.

2236
02:33:44,379 --> 02:33:46,310
-I'm -- I'm anti-whistle,
to be honest.

2237
02:33:46,413 --> 02:33:47,275
-Troy.
-You guys can keep talking.

2238
02:33:47,379 --> 02:33:48,448
Same -- Same --

2239
02:33:48,551 --> 02:33:49,862
-Ooh!
-Okay, good.

2240
02:33:49,965 --> 02:33:51,379
Troy,
same question.

2241
02:33:51,482 --> 02:33:54,793
You of all people should have a
dangling red phone explanation.

2242
02:33:54,896 --> 02:33:56,310
-Well, I think again,
it goes back to what

2243
02:33:56,413 --> 02:33:58,344
we were talking
about earlier with fascism.

2244
02:33:58,448 --> 02:34:00,413
You know, it's connecting
back to something

2245
02:34:00,517 --> 02:34:03,689
that was specifically a fascist
cinema, Italian tradition,

2246
02:34:03,793 --> 02:34:05,827
which was
the white telephone movies.

2247
02:34:05,931 --> 02:34:07,827
They were these kind of
upper crust,

2248
02:34:07,931 --> 02:34:11,517
um, you know, sort of
high-gloss romantic comedies.

2249
02:34:11,620 --> 02:34:14,000
Um, obviously they
weren't exported to the US.

2250
02:34:14,103 --> 02:34:15,896
They didn't have
any appeal outside of Italy,

2251
02:34:16,000 --> 02:34:17,931
but they were very successful
at the time.

2252
02:34:18,034 --> 02:34:19,689
And actually, one of the actors

2253
02:34:19,793 --> 02:34:21,586
who starred in a lot of those
films was a future director,

2254
02:34:21,689 --> 02:34:22,965
Vittorio De Sica,

2255
02:34:23,068 --> 02:34:25,862
who would be one
of the founders of neorealism.

2256
02:34:25,965 --> 02:34:28,206
So I think Bava is kind of
turning that on its head.

2257
02:34:28,310 --> 02:34:31,862
He's referencing back to this
period of time of fascist Italy.

2258
02:34:31,965 --> 02:34:34,103
Uh, this -- this long tradition
of the white telephones,

2259
02:34:34,206 --> 02:34:36,413
which was specifically seen
as kind of a status symbol.

2260
02:34:36,517 --> 02:34:39,689
You know, if you lived
in a modern, you know,

2261
02:34:39,793 --> 02:34:42,068
palatial sort of villa
or apartment,

2262
02:34:42,172 --> 02:34:43,620
you had the white telephone.

2263
02:34:43,724 --> 02:34:46,379
So here, he's having a little
bit of a perverse joke on that.

2264
02:34:46,482 --> 02:34:47,965
And it's not the first time
he did it either,

2265
02:34:48,068 --> 02:34:49,689
because it's very much
a central prop

2266
02:34:49,793 --> 02:34:51,758
of the telephone segment
of "Black Sabbath."

2267
02:34:51,862 --> 02:34:54,310
-So you're both saying
this is some kind of inside joke

2268
02:34:54,413 --> 02:34:56,758
that no Non-Italians
would ever understand?

2269
02:34:56,862 --> 02:34:58,068
-Pretty much.
Yes.

2270
02:34:58,172 --> 02:35:00,551
-Okay, so fuck everybody else
in the world.

2271
02:35:00,655 --> 02:35:03,137
-We're just gonna talk
about the white telephones

2272
02:35:03,241 --> 02:35:05,137
and the red telephones?

2273
02:35:05,241 --> 02:35:06,965
-And I think it goes
without saying

2274
02:35:07,068 --> 02:35:08,482
who is the creator
of the giallo?

2275
02:35:08,586 --> 02:35:09,689
It's obviously Mario Bava.

2276
02:35:09,793 --> 02:35:11,862
-Okay,
Sam, you're next.

2277
02:35:11,965 --> 02:35:14,206
-Uh, I think Bava is
absolutely foundational

2278
02:35:14,310 --> 02:35:15,931
to the --
to the genre of giallo.

2279
02:35:16,034 --> 02:35:20,379
I think he -- he did something
that would -- would pioneer.

2280
02:35:20,482 --> 02:35:23,206
But I think with --
with Plumage,

2281
02:35:23,310 --> 02:35:26,034
Argento did something
that set a tone and a tenor

2282
02:35:26,137 --> 02:35:29,379
for largely the amount
of giallo that follow.

2283
02:35:29,482 --> 02:35:32,551
A lot of those giallo or gialli
are much more like Plumage

2284
02:35:32,655 --> 02:35:34,103
than they are
"Blood and Black Lace"

2285
02:35:34,206 --> 02:35:37,379
in their nature and their
procedural and their motive.

2286
02:35:37,482 --> 02:35:40,448
So I think it's possibly
splitting the answer,

2287
02:35:40,551 --> 02:35:42,896
but I think in terms of
what we think of as the giallo

2288
02:35:43,000 --> 02:35:45,827
and largely what followed,
to me the answer is Argento.

2289
02:35:45,931 --> 02:35:47,344
-Lars, wind it up for us.

2290
02:35:47,448 --> 02:35:49,448
-Yeah.
I mean, I think that, you know,

2291
02:35:49,551 --> 02:35:51,068
often an art form

2292
02:35:51,172 --> 02:35:52,931
or a subdivision
of an art form like this

2293
02:35:53,034 --> 02:35:55,758
is characterized by a genius
who's then --

2294
02:35:55,862 --> 02:35:59,172
who brings these things
from the subconscious

2295
02:35:59,275 --> 02:36:01,620
and then brings it into
the world that we exist in.

2296
02:36:01,724 --> 02:36:04,172
So Mozart was a genius.

2297
02:36:04,275 --> 02:36:06,172
Salieri was not.

2298
02:36:06,275 --> 02:36:08,620
Argento is Salieri.

2299
02:36:08,724 --> 02:36:09,965
I don't think there's
any dispute here.

2300
02:36:10,068 --> 02:36:11,931
I don't think even
our panelists would argue that.

2301
02:36:12,034 --> 02:36:14,275
-Oh, boy.
-And then Bava is Mozart.

2302
02:36:14,379 --> 02:36:16,689
And I think we're all
in agreement on this, right?

2303
02:36:16,793 --> 02:36:19,241
-Absolutely not.
-I don't think so.

2304
02:36:19,344 --> 02:36:21,344
-And the red telephone,
I think there's also a really

2305
02:36:21,448 --> 02:36:23,517
sort of important angle here.

2306
02:36:23,620 --> 02:36:27,068
So Jacques Tourneur, who made
a lot of really wonderful films,

2307
02:36:27,172 --> 02:36:29,896
tended to sign his films
with a cat.

2308
02:36:30,000 --> 02:36:32,034
You would have a cat in his
films and a cat would show up,

2309
02:36:32,137 --> 02:36:33,793
and that was his artistic
signature.

2310
02:36:33,896 --> 02:36:35,241
If he puts the cat in the film,

2311
02:36:35,344 --> 02:36:36,620
that means he's signing it.

2312
02:36:36,724 --> 02:36:38,068
It's a work of his.

2313
02:36:38,172 --> 02:36:39,862
And I think you have this
with Bava,

2314
02:36:39,965 --> 02:36:42,413
with, uh,
"I tre volti della paura"

2315
02:36:42,517 --> 02:36:43,862
a.k.a. "Black Sabbath,"

2316
02:36:43,965 --> 02:36:45,620
He has the red telephone
sequence.

2317
02:36:45,724 --> 02:36:48,482
And I think that in this case,
it's very much a throwback.

2318
02:36:48,586 --> 02:36:50,896
And this is Bava signing
the film.

2319
02:36:57,275 --> 02:37:01,103
This is Mozart, a.k.a.
Bava signing this masterpiece.

2320
02:37:01,206 --> 02:37:02,344
-I think we're overlooking
something, though.

2321
02:37:02,448 --> 02:37:03,724
What's that?

2322
02:37:03,827 --> 02:37:06,206
-I just think that the phone
is Bava's real way

2323
02:37:06,310 --> 02:37:08,517
of telling us that this movie
is off the hook.

2324
02:37:08,620 --> 02:37:09,896
-Yeah.
-Ooh!

2325
02:37:10,000 --> 02:37:12,344
Agreed? Agreed.
-That's a point in our favor.

2326
02:37:12,448 --> 02:37:14,206
I feel like it might be.

2327
02:37:15,931 --> 02:37:19,965
-Now we're going to do
last minute -- These are your
last comments about why

2328
02:37:20,068 --> 02:37:25,482
your guy deserves the title
of originator of the giallo,

2329
02:37:25,586 --> 02:37:28,137
meaning originator of what
we see today,

2330
02:37:28,241 --> 02:37:31,517
as what we think of today
as the giallos.

2331
02:37:31,620 --> 02:37:34,793
And the same order,
Claire first.

2332
02:37:34,896 --> 02:37:39,551
-Well, I think that the populist
answer simply is Argento.

2333
02:37:39,655 --> 02:37:42,275
I mean, for us,
sort of like talking heads

2334
02:37:42,379 --> 02:37:44,241
to sit here in this room
and like,

2335
02:37:44,344 --> 02:37:46,965
parse all
this academic history and stuff.

2336
02:37:47,068 --> 02:37:48,793
You know, that's great.
We can do this all day.

2337
02:37:48,896 --> 02:37:51,275
But if you ask
the average horror fan,

2338
02:37:51,379 --> 02:37:53,965
what is a giallo they're going
to start describing a movie

2339
02:37:54,068 --> 02:37:56,103
that sounds more like
an Argento movie

2340
02:37:56,206 --> 02:37:58,931
than like a Bava movie
without even getting into like,

2341
02:37:59,034 --> 02:38:00,758
which of these guys
was more innovative

2342
02:38:00,862 --> 02:38:02,310
or more brilliant or something?

2343
02:38:02,413 --> 02:38:04,344
It's Argento's vision
that lasted

2344
02:38:04,448 --> 02:38:06,103
and that spread the farthest.

2345
02:38:06,206 --> 02:38:08,241
-Okay.
What's that vision?

2346
02:38:08,344 --> 02:38:09,758
What do you --
How do you describe that vision?

2347
02:38:09,862 --> 02:38:11,379
-We've been describing
it all night.

2348
02:38:11,482 --> 02:38:12,586
Why are you doing this to me?

2349
02:38:12,689 --> 02:38:14,103
Where have you been?

2350
02:38:14,206 --> 02:38:16,000
-I'm tired.
I'm going back to bed.

2351
02:38:16,103 --> 02:38:18,310
-Alright.
-Troy.

2352
02:38:18,413 --> 02:38:21,137
-Well,
I mean, it's not Bava's fault

2353
02:38:21,241 --> 02:38:23,034
that the public at large
is ill informed.

2354
02:38:23,137 --> 02:38:25,896
So this idea that --

2355
02:38:26,000 --> 02:38:30,379
Look, if -- if you're looking at
a giallo in terms of the story

2356
02:38:30,482 --> 02:38:32,793
and the psychology,
yeah, sure.

2357
02:38:32,896 --> 02:38:34,827
You can throw it
to Dario Argento, why not?

2358
02:38:34,931 --> 02:38:36,758
You know, he's the pampered,
rich kid.

2359
02:38:36,862 --> 02:38:38,206
He's always had things easy.
That's fine.

2360
02:38:38,310 --> 02:38:40,827
But Mario Bava was
a filmmaker of the people.

2361
02:38:40,931 --> 02:38:42,103
He was somebody who worked

2362
02:38:42,206 --> 02:38:43,517
with very little in the way
of resources,

2363
02:38:43,620 --> 02:38:44,689
made films that looked

2364
02:38:44,793 --> 02:38:46,758
absolutely luscious
with no money.

2365
02:38:46,862 --> 02:38:48,965
Argento starts,
after a certain point,

2366
02:38:49,068 --> 02:38:50,931
his budget starts to shrink
and look what happens.

2367
02:38:51,034 --> 02:38:53,275
Movies go way downhill.
He can't cut it.

2368
02:38:53,379 --> 02:38:56,862
So I think the fact
that ultimately, um,

2369
02:38:56,965 --> 02:38:58,965
if we're hung up on motivation,

2370
02:38:59,068 --> 02:39:01,275
we're missing the point,
which is that Bava

2371
02:39:01,379 --> 02:39:03,172
in this particular film,
"Blood and Black Lace,"

2372
02:39:03,275 --> 02:39:05,896
he creates the murder
set piece movie.

2373
02:39:06,000 --> 02:39:07,413
-And Claire,
to use your framing,

2374
02:39:07,517 --> 02:39:10,000
it's like if you were to talk to
any member of the general public

2375
02:39:10,103 --> 02:39:12,068
and say,
what is a -- what is a giallo?

2376
02:39:12,172 --> 02:39:15,482
It's probably going
to come down to it's a stylish,

2377
02:39:15,586 --> 02:39:19,068
colorful body count movie.

2378
02:39:19,172 --> 02:39:21,034
Uh, and we're looking at
two movies here,

2379
02:39:21,137 --> 02:39:23,896
both of which are stylish,
colorful body count movies.

2380
02:39:24,000 --> 02:39:27,931
But which one is more stylish,
more body count, more colorful.

2381
02:39:28,034 --> 02:39:30,931
And I think
if you look at those, certainly,

2382
02:39:31,034 --> 02:39:33,206
do we even need to continue
this farce?

2383
02:39:33,310 --> 02:39:35,206
Certainly
it's "Blood and Black Lace."

2384
02:39:37,379 --> 02:39:39,172
-I just still think
that without that element

2385
02:39:39,275 --> 02:39:41,758
of like absurdity, perversity

2386
02:39:41,862 --> 02:39:43,862
and not just the
the absurdity and perversity,

2387
02:39:43,965 --> 02:39:45,586
like within the psychology
of the characters,

2388
02:39:45,689 --> 02:39:48,413
but within the viewers
experience,

2389
02:39:48,517 --> 02:39:53,068
most people will tell you that a
giallo is delirious and feverish

2390
02:39:53,172 --> 02:39:55,241
and doesn't make
that much sense in the end,

2391
02:39:55,344 --> 02:39:56,862
and is full of twists.

2392
02:39:56,965 --> 02:40:00,172
And I think even you guys
have already agreed tonight

2393
02:40:00,275 --> 02:40:03,758
that Argento's conclusion
is vastly more absurd.

2394
02:40:03,862 --> 02:40:08,344
-You're making the argument
that absurdity trumps realism.

2395
02:40:08,448 --> 02:40:11,034
-I have been making that
argument and I will continue to.

2396
02:40:11,137 --> 02:40:12,862
-Are you new here?

2397
02:40:12,965 --> 02:40:15,241
Did you just tune in?

2398
02:40:15,344 --> 02:40:17,344
-You're saying that's what --
-Do you think that if I --

2399
02:40:17,448 --> 02:40:19,172
-You're saying that's what makes
Argento great.

2400
02:40:19,275 --> 02:40:21,103
-I'm saying that that's what
makes his movies

2401
02:40:21,206 --> 02:40:26,068
more identifiably or, like,
urgently giallo-esque.

2402
02:40:26,172 --> 02:40:30,689
Because if it's just a stylish,
nice-looking slasher movie,

2403
02:40:30,793 --> 02:40:33,103
then it's just a stylish,
nice looking slasher movie.

2404
02:40:33,206 --> 02:40:34,379
-From Italy.
-It has to be something --

2405
02:40:34,482 --> 02:40:36,137
-From Italy.
-Right, from Italy.

2406
02:40:36,241 --> 02:40:38,000
Excuse me?

2407
02:40:39,724 --> 02:40:40,827
-What does that mean?
-Okay.

2408
02:40:42,344 --> 02:40:45,482
-And listen, I think
in terms of the argument here,

2409
02:40:45,586 --> 02:40:47,517
I don't want to argue
about origination,

2410
02:40:47,620 --> 02:40:50,275
you know, origin, I think.

2411
02:40:50,379 --> 02:40:52,137
"The Girl Who Knew Too Much,"
"Blood and Black Lace,"

2412
02:40:52,241 --> 02:40:53,862
these are foundational pieces.

2413
02:40:53,965 --> 02:40:57,413
They helped declare
what the giallo was.

2414
02:40:57,517 --> 02:40:58,827
But I think in terms
of what we're talking about,

2415
02:40:58,931 --> 02:41:01,137
Argento sharpened it
and I think helped set the tone

2416
02:41:01,241 --> 02:41:03,862
for what it would become,
for what we largely think of it.

2417
02:41:03,965 --> 02:41:07,931
And for that
I gotta go to Argento.

2418
02:41:08,034 --> 02:41:10,000
-Yeah!
-He popularized it.

2419
02:41:10,103 --> 02:41:11,586
-But that's not the same thing
as creating.

2420
02:41:11,689 --> 02:41:13,275
-I agree with you.

2421
02:41:13,379 --> 02:41:14,827
-But he's not saying
popularizing.

2422
02:41:14,931 --> 02:41:17,620
He's talking
about taking all the elements

2423
02:41:17,724 --> 02:41:20,689
that Bava certainly,
like, brought to the surface

2424
02:41:20,793 --> 02:41:21,965
and putting them together

2425
02:41:22,068 --> 02:41:25,068
in the most identifiably
giallo configuration.

2426
02:41:25,172 --> 02:41:27,103
-Crystallizing, maybe.
-Oh, right, crystallizing.

2427
02:41:27,206 --> 02:41:28,620
I'm so sorry.

2428
02:41:28,724 --> 02:41:31,000
-You know, I think
if there was anything primitive

2429
02:41:31,103 --> 02:41:34,482
or unsatisfying about
"Blood and Black Lace"

2430
02:41:34,586 --> 02:41:37,655
that your arguments
would carry the day.

2431
02:41:37,758 --> 02:41:39,827
But I think that because
"Blood and Black Lace"

2432
02:41:39,931 --> 02:41:43,517
is such a fully
realized piece of art,

2433
02:41:43,620 --> 02:41:46,172
even though it was neglected
at the time,

2434
02:41:46,275 --> 02:41:49,310
that you guys
are going to get two more points

2435
02:41:49,413 --> 02:41:51,241
than they get on
the very fast round.

2436
02:41:51,344 --> 02:41:52,758
-Fair enough.
That's fair, that's fair.

2437
02:41:52,862 --> 02:41:54,379
-Boo!
-And the title goes --

2438
02:41:54,482 --> 02:41:56,172
The title goes to Team Bava!

2439
02:41:56,275 --> 02:41:58,620
- Bava! Bava!
- We have decided.

2440
02:42:04,103 --> 02:42:06,586
Alright.
So from now on.

2441
02:42:06,689 --> 02:42:09,068
-I want to throw things also.

2442
02:42:09,172 --> 02:42:12,034
-From now on, whenever anyone
asks who originated the giallo,

2443
02:42:12,137 --> 02:42:13,517
we all know the answer.

2444
02:42:13,620 --> 02:42:15,448
It was Mario Bava
because we proved it

2445
02:42:15,551 --> 02:42:17,448
scientifically tonight.

2446
02:42:17,551 --> 02:42:19,103
-I'm putting up the gloved fist!

2447
02:42:19,206 --> 02:42:22,172
We solved the mystery
of the dangling red telephone.

2448
02:42:22,275 --> 02:42:26,206
It relates to the white
telephone in Italian history.

2449
02:42:27,965 --> 02:42:30,379
Alright.
And in the drive-in mailbag,

2450
02:42:30,482 --> 02:42:33,655
I'm going to ask questions
of Team Bava.

2451
02:42:33,758 --> 02:42:37,137
Uh, so, uh,
Lars, you've been a curator

2452
02:42:37,241 --> 02:42:41,517
of exploitation films
and exploitation film screenings

2453
02:42:41,620 --> 02:42:43,862
longer than anybody
in the business.

2454
02:42:43,965 --> 02:42:47,137
Is there such a thing
as a forgotten movie,

2455
02:42:47,241 --> 02:42:50,137
a hidden gem
that no one knows about?

2456
02:42:50,241 --> 02:42:52,172
-I find them all the time,
and I really have to say,

2457
02:42:52,275 --> 02:42:55,034
it's almost as if
the past is creating new work.

2458
02:42:55,137 --> 02:42:57,586
Like it's almost -- It's so
spooky because everyone --

2459
02:42:57,689 --> 02:43:00,793
Like, I continue to find movies
that are just never heard of,

2460
02:43:00,896 --> 02:43:02,413
never seen referenced.

2461
02:43:02,517 --> 02:43:04,413
And I've been out there,
like, looking

2462
02:43:04,517 --> 02:43:07,413
and just new ones will enter
into the stream

2463
02:43:07,517 --> 02:43:09,103
all the time
that I've never heard of.

2464
02:43:09,206 --> 02:43:11,655
And I really started thinking
the past is up to something.

2465
02:43:11,758 --> 02:43:13,724
-Really?
Can you name one recently?

2466
02:43:13,827 --> 02:43:17,000
-"Hyperspace" by Earl Ornsby
from North Carolina.

2467
02:43:17,103 --> 02:43:18,758
-An Earl Ornsby movie?

2468
02:43:18,862 --> 02:43:22,103
-An Earl Ornsby sci-fi movie.
-Has Earl Ornsby pressed you?

2469
02:43:22,206 --> 02:43:24,931
-A Sci-fi comedy starring
Chris Elliott.

2470
02:43:25,034 --> 02:43:26,586
-I might have to take
your title back.

2471
02:43:26,689 --> 02:43:28,827
-No, no, no, no, Chris Elliott
and Paula Poundstone.

2472
02:43:28,931 --> 02:43:30,034
-Earl Ornsby, the redneck

2473
02:43:30,137 --> 02:43:32,000
North Carolina
amateur filmmaker?

2474
02:43:32,103 --> 02:43:33,620
-He's tired. He's tired.
-Yeah, yeah.

2475
02:43:33,724 --> 02:43:35,689
-Okay.
-I saw a great Earl Ornsby movie

2476
02:43:35,793 --> 02:43:37,689
with Chris Elliott
and Paula Poundstone

2477
02:43:37,793 --> 02:43:39,379
playing serious roles.

2478
02:43:39,482 --> 02:43:42,931
Why those two in
a sci-fi movie?

2479
02:43:43,034 --> 02:43:45,862
-You find it in a barn
somewhere in North Carolina.

2480
02:43:45,965 --> 02:43:48,931
-I found --
Even better, on the internet.

2481
02:43:49,034 --> 02:43:51,379
-You found it on the internet?
-I found it on the internet.

2482
02:43:51,482 --> 02:43:54,965
-Okay. Wow.

2483
02:43:55,068 --> 02:43:57,206
Tell people about those programs
you do in Austin.

2484
02:43:57,310 --> 02:44:00,413
Now that the original temple
of the cult movie,

2485
02:44:00,517 --> 02:44:03,620
the Alamo Drafthouse
on sixth Street in Austin,

2486
02:44:03,724 --> 02:44:07,103
has been taken over
by infidels non-film people.

2487
02:44:07,206 --> 02:44:09,448
-Well, Joe Rogan.
Is that an infidel?

2488
02:44:09,551 --> 02:44:11,655
-Well, he's not a horror fan.

2489
02:44:11,758 --> 02:44:13,689
Alright. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

2490
02:44:13,793 --> 02:44:16,068
-Yeah, yeah. No.
So Austin has, uh,

2491
02:44:16,172 --> 02:44:17,551
you know, against all our,

2492
02:44:17,655 --> 02:44:19,413
you know, we haven't
been fighting hard enough

2493
02:44:19,517 --> 02:44:22,068
because Austin is now
kind of the alt, you know,

2494
02:44:22,172 --> 02:44:26,137
manosphere, uh,
alt-comedy capital of the world,

2495
02:44:26,241 --> 02:44:27,689
and nobody likes it.

2496
02:44:27,793 --> 02:44:29,862
We all hate it,
but it will pass.

2497
02:44:29,965 --> 02:44:32,931
They'll all be going to,
I predict, Nashville next.

2498
02:44:33,034 --> 02:44:36,310
-Okay, I think they're already
there actually.

2499
02:44:36,413 --> 02:44:37,862
I was just there.

2500
02:44:37,965 --> 02:44:40,862
And, Troy, my question
for you is I first saw

2501
02:44:40,965 --> 02:44:41,965
or heard one
of your commentaries

2502
02:44:42,068 --> 02:44:43,241
when I was researching

2503
02:44:43,344 --> 02:44:44,793
"The Living Dead
at Manchester Morgue,"

2504
02:44:44,896 --> 02:44:46,241
which we had on the show,

2505
02:44:46,344 --> 02:44:48,724
and I just naturally
assumed you were British.

2506
02:44:48,827 --> 02:44:52,068
Maybe partly because
you have a Yorkshire surname,

2507
02:44:52,172 --> 02:44:54,965
but you're from a --
you're from a small town

2508
02:44:55,068 --> 02:44:56,344
in central Pennsylvania.

2509
02:44:56,448 --> 02:45:00,793
So how did you get so deep
into Euro-horror?

2510
02:45:00,896 --> 02:45:03,482
-It all goes back
to Mario Bava once again.

2511
02:45:03,586 --> 02:45:05,586
Uh, as a kid growing up
in the '80s,

2512
02:45:05,689 --> 02:45:07,620
I had occasion
to see "Baron Blood"

2513
02:45:07,724 --> 02:45:09,655
when I was very little,

2514
02:45:09,758 --> 02:45:12,310
and from there
I just sort of took an interest.

2515
02:45:12,413 --> 02:45:15,482
Um, Bava
is my favorite filmmaker.

2516
02:45:15,586 --> 02:45:17,586
He's somebody
that has inspired me

2517
02:45:17,689 --> 02:45:20,758
to write about movies,
essentially.

2518
02:45:20,862 --> 02:45:23,344
Um, you know,
getting into the European stuff,

2519
02:45:23,448 --> 02:45:25,206
getting into then,

2520
02:45:25,310 --> 02:45:27,241
you know, went from there
to Argento to Fulci

2521
02:45:27,344 --> 02:45:29,137
to Jess Franco
and all these different people.

2522
02:45:29,241 --> 02:45:30,379
And at this point,

2523
02:45:30,482 --> 02:45:31,931
I've written so many
different books

2524
02:45:32,034 --> 02:45:34,275
and done so many commentaries
on these films.

2525
02:45:34,379 --> 02:45:37,137
You know, it's just great
that I've had an opportunity.

2526
02:45:37,241 --> 02:45:38,689
I'm very grateful
and very appreciative

2527
02:45:38,793 --> 02:45:41,103
to have had an opportunity
to talk about this stuff

2528
02:45:41,206 --> 02:45:42,620
that means something to me,

2529
02:45:42,724 --> 02:45:45,000
because coming from where I come
from, let me assure you,

2530
02:45:45,103 --> 02:45:47,448
they don't know anything about
Mario Bava where I come from.

2531
02:45:47,551 --> 02:45:50,310
-Mario Bava is not big
in Johnstown, Pennsylvania?

2532
02:45:50,413 --> 02:45:52,551
-Only -- Only downtown
on Thursday nights.

2533
02:45:52,655 --> 02:45:54,862
-Okay.
And you have to tell us,

2534
02:45:54,965 --> 02:45:57,103
because of your
extensive researches,

2535
02:45:57,206 --> 02:46:00,275
best Bava movie
and best Argento movie.

2536
02:46:00,379 --> 02:46:02,172
You've written books
on both men.

2537
02:46:02,275 --> 02:46:03,862
-Best and favorite
are very different words,

2538
02:46:03,965 --> 02:46:05,517
but I'm going to go favorite.

2539
02:46:05,620 --> 02:46:07,206
I would say my favorite
Mario Bava film

2540
02:46:07,310 --> 02:46:08,827
is "Lisa and the Devil."

2541
02:46:08,931 --> 02:46:11,137
Beautiful surrealist masterpiece
of a film.

2542
02:46:11,241 --> 02:46:13,413
And the best Argento,
and my favorite Argento,

2543
02:46:13,517 --> 02:46:15,103
to me is "Deep Red."

2544
02:46:15,206 --> 02:46:17,689
-Yeah, okay. Thanks, guys.

2545
02:46:17,793 --> 02:46:19,137
I know you worked really hard,

2546
02:46:19,241 --> 02:46:21,689
but you delivered on everything.

2547
02:46:21,793 --> 02:46:25,310
And, um, I wish I could have
you all here every show

2548
02:46:25,413 --> 02:46:27,172
because it makes
my job much easier,

2549
02:46:27,275 --> 02:46:29,413
plus, I can blame you
on social media

2550
02:46:29,517 --> 02:46:31,551
for any weird opinions
that emerge.

2551
02:46:31,655 --> 02:46:33,896
But that's it for
the Battle for the Black Glove.

2552
02:46:34,000 --> 02:46:35,172
And that's it for me.

2553
02:46:35,275 --> 02:46:36,724
And that's it
for Darcy the Mail Girl

2554
02:46:36,827 --> 02:46:38,482
reminding you
that jellyfish have survived

2555
02:46:38,586 --> 02:46:42,275
for 650 million years
despite not having brains.

2556
02:46:42,379 --> 02:46:44,758
And that fact gives hope
to many people.

2557
02:46:46,206 --> 02:46:48,655
And the drive-in will never die.

2558
02:46:48,758 --> 02:46:51,448
Man in a cemetery
is wailing over a grave.

2559
02:46:51,551 --> 02:46:52,827
-Okay?

2560
02:46:52,931 --> 02:46:55,931
-Guy goes up to him
and he hears him moaning,

2561
02:46:56,034 --> 02:46:58,068
"Oh, why did you die?

2562
02:46:58,172 --> 02:46:59,931
Why did you have to die?"

2563
02:47:00,034 --> 02:47:01,413
The guy feels bad for him
and says,

2564
02:47:01,517 --> 02:47:02,724
"I'm so sorry for your loss,

2565
02:47:02,827 --> 02:47:04,379
but I noticed from the headstone

2566
02:47:04,482 --> 02:47:06,172
that your friend died
four years ago.

2567
02:47:06,275 --> 02:47:07,689
You must have really loved him."

2568
02:47:07,793 --> 02:47:09,310
The man says,
"Oh, I never knew him at all.

2569
02:47:09,413 --> 02:47:11,620
But he was my wife's
first husband."

2570
02:47:14,758 --> 02:47:16,137
-Yep, yep, yep.
-Alright, alright, alright.

2571
02:47:16,241 --> 02:47:18,241
I'm gonna have to go again.
I'm gonna have to go again.

2572
02:47:18,344 --> 02:47:19,517
Um...

2573
02:47:21,655 --> 02:47:24,724
Back in the Old West,
there was a fierce battle

2574
02:47:24,827 --> 02:47:26,586
between cowboys
and Native Americans.

2575
02:47:26,689 --> 02:47:28,724
And the Native Americans
captured one of the cowboys

2576
02:47:28,827 --> 02:47:31,137
and brought him back
to the village.

2577
02:47:31,241 --> 02:47:33,517
And the chief comes out
to greet the prisoner,

2578
02:47:33,620 --> 02:47:37,241
and he says,
"You must die in three days,

2579
02:47:37,344 --> 02:47:39,000
but you get one wish per day.

2580
02:47:39,103 --> 02:47:41,241
What is your first wish?"

2581
02:47:41,344 --> 02:47:45,000
And the cowboy says,
"Can you bring my horse over?"

2582
02:47:45,103 --> 02:47:46,413
And they bring his horse.

2583
02:47:46,517 --> 02:47:49,620
And the cowboy whispers
into the horse's ear,

2584
02:47:49,724 --> 02:47:51,827
and the horse runs off
to the town

2585
02:47:51,931 --> 02:47:55,034
and comes back
with a beautiful blonde.

2586
02:47:55,137 --> 02:47:56,896
And the cowboy takes
the blonde into a tepee

2587
02:47:57,000 --> 02:47:59,206
and has sex with her.

2588
02:47:59,310 --> 02:48:00,551
So on the second day,
the chief says,

2589
02:48:00,655 --> 02:48:02,344
"Okay,
you must die in two days.

2590
02:48:02,448 --> 02:48:04,000
What's your second wish?"

2591
02:48:04,103 --> 02:48:05,689
And cowboy asks for his horse
again.

2592
02:48:05,793 --> 02:48:07,586
He whispers
in the horse's ear again,

2593
02:48:07,689 --> 02:48:08,862
and the horse runs off to town,

2594
02:48:08,965 --> 02:48:11,862
comes back with
a voluptuous redhead,

2595
02:48:11,965 --> 02:48:13,862
and the cowboy takes
the redhead into a teepee

2596
02:48:13,965 --> 02:48:15,793
and has sex with her.

2597
02:48:15,896 --> 02:48:18,137
And on the third day,
the chief tells the cowboy,

2598
02:48:18,241 --> 02:48:20,275
"Well, you must die today.

2599
02:48:20,379 --> 02:48:22,275
So what's your third wish?"

2600
02:48:22,379 --> 02:48:24,310
And cowboy
requests his horse again.

2601
02:48:24,413 --> 02:48:26,931
And the chief says,
"This is crazy white man."

2602
02:48:27,034 --> 02:48:28,724
The cowboy grabs the horse
by his ears

2603
02:48:28,827 --> 02:48:31,137
and he looks straight into
the horse's eyes and he says,

2604
02:48:31,241 --> 02:48:32,448
"Now read my lips.

2605
02:48:32,551 --> 02:48:34,620
I said, bring posse!"

2606
02:48:36,586 --> 02:48:38,448
-No.

2607
02:48:42,655 --> 02:48:45,517
-You won. You won.
-Okay.

2608
02:48:49,275 --> 02:48:51,517
-♪ We are drive-in mutants
-♪ Drive-in mutants ♪

2609
02:48:51,620 --> 02:48:53,758
-♪ We are not like
other people ♪

2610
02:48:53,862 --> 02:48:55,172
♪ We are sick
-♪ Sick ♪

2611
02:48:55,275 --> 02:48:56,620
-♪ We are disgusting
-♪ Disgusting ♪

2612
02:48:56,724 --> 02:48:59,310
-♪ We believe in,
we believe in ♪

2613
02:48:59,413 --> 02:49:00,827
-♪ Blood ♪

2614
02:49:00,931 --> 02:49:02,137
♪ And breasts ♪

2615
02:49:02,241 --> 02:49:03,689
♪ And beasts ♪

2616
02:49:03,793 --> 02:49:04,862
-♪ Yeah, we believe in ♪

2617
02:49:04,965 --> 02:49:06,103
-♪ Blood ♪

2618
02:49:06,206 --> 02:49:07,344
♪ And breasts ♪

2619
02:49:07,448 --> 02:49:08,758
♪ And beasts ♪

2620
02:49:09,862 --> 02:49:12,448
-♪ If life had a vomit meter ♪

2621
02:49:12,551 --> 02:49:15,103
♪ We'd be off the scale
-♪ Off the scale ♪

2622
02:49:15,206 --> 02:49:18,482
-♪ As long as one drive-in
remains on the planet Earth ♪

2623
02:49:18,586 --> 02:49:21,000
♪ We will party like
jungle animals ♪

2624
02:49:23,068 --> 02:49:24,655
♪ We will boogie till we puke ♪

2625
02:49:24,758 --> 02:49:25,827
-♪ Boogie till we puke ♪

2626
02:49:25,931 --> 02:49:28,275
-♪ The drive-in will never die ♪

2627
02:49:28,379 --> 02:49:29,965
♪ We will boogie till we puke ♪

2628
02:49:30,068 --> 02:49:31,206
-♪ Boogie till we puke ♪

2629
02:49:31,310 --> 02:49:33,103
-♪ The drive-in will never die ♪

2630
02:49:33,206 --> 02:49:34,206
-♪ We believe in ♪

2631
02:49:34,310 --> 02:49:35,310
♪ Blood ♪

2632
02:49:35,413 --> 02:49:36,517
♪ And breasts ♪

2633
02:49:36,620 --> 02:49:38,103
♪ And beasts ♪

2634
02:49:38,206 --> 02:49:39,275
-♪ We believe in ♪

2635
02:49:39,379 --> 02:49:40,551
-♪ Blood ♪

2636
02:49:40,655 --> 02:49:41,827
♪ And breasts ♪

2637
02:49:41,931 --> 02:49:43,344
♪ And beasts ♪

2638
02:49:43,448 --> 02:49:45,000
-♪ Yeah, we believe in ♪

2639
02:49:52,862 --> 02:49:55,689
-Made in Georgia.